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Table Games Blackjack bankroll & minimum

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by mrdeadx, Nov 10, 2015.

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  1. mrdeadx

    mrdeadx Tourist

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    Hi guys,

    I've played $5-$10 min blackjack for the last couple of trips and won and lost small amounts. I usually cash in $100 an play until I either lose it or get $60+ up. I usually double up if I lose then go back to the minimum if I win but I was looking at doing something else as I'm not really winning much (I know luck is involved too).

    I was thinking of starting with $250 and always betting 10% of my total stake so therefore I'd bet bigger the more money I had but cut it back if I'm down. Anyone do this and if so, how does it work out for you?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  2. bigalbr

    bigalbr VIP Whale

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    What I used to do was press a certain number of times when I won, go back to minimum when I lost. Also, I made sure I doubled and split whenever basic strategy indicated it was correct. This strategy takes advantage of hot streaks and will put you in some big hands from time to time. If you don't want to be split and doubled with your maximum press bet out there, it's probably not for you.

    If I understand what you're doing, it's kind of a mini-Martingale. You only raise your bet once if you lose, only bet the minimum if you win. This strategy pretty much guarantees you will never win much per session, although it probably lets you play for a long time.
     
  3. hail2skins

    hail2skins Low-Roller

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    Sounds like you're a low-stakes player who doesn't care about winning a ton of money, but yet would like to win a little and have fun (kind of like me). I would try to find a counting system that isn't too complex but doesn't necessarily require you to keep track of how many decks are left, do the running count division to the true count, etc (I think such systems are referred to as "unbalanced," such as Knock Out). Such systems aren't as powerful as traditional Hi-Lo systems, but do offer the challenge of keeping track of the cards and a rationale of when to increase your bet. I think at these levels (particularly at $10 min), you should be buying in for at least $200. I also like to stay at a table for at least an hour and take stock of where I am at that point, unless I'm either not having fun or am getting totally crushed.

    Of course you want to play at a table that pays 3/2 for blackjack as well, which I understand is becoming very tough to find on the Strip at the lower-limit levels. Downtown and locals places are better options. You should avoid continuous shuffling machines as well.......OK to play all things being equal, but renders any sort of card tracking system worthless.
     
  4. Fafa2e

    Fafa2e Low-Roller

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    I use a progressive style usually starting at $25 then I will add $5 to the next bet if I win and $10 to each successive win thereafter. Pushes stay at the same level and losses drop back down to $25. I find that this style provides an opportunity for some big winning sessions if I get on a roll, but allows me to play for a while if the table is choppy. If I'm up, I will increase the bets to $50, +10, +20. I always try to go to the table with a buy-in of 20 times the table minimum.

    There is no gambling system (which is why I used the word style) that can beat the underlying house advantage, but I find the progressive style provides the most entertainment for me because it gives me the opportunity for larger wins if I get on a roll.
     
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  5. mrdeadx

    mrdeadx Tourist

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    Thank you guys, that is just the type of advice I am after. I will look into all of those suggestions. I'm not sure I have the brain on me to count to be honest, especially after some cocktails but I'll have a read up on it.

    Thanks again!
     
  6. gradytripp

    gradytripp Low-Roller

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    You might look at the Wizard of Odds's Ace-Five count. It's not as powerful as more complicated systems, and real counters look down on it, but then again it's pretty easy--you only count aces and fives.

    http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/17/

    I use it at places with a $5 minimum (downtown, Ellis Island, etc.) and spread my bets only up to about $20-$25, so I'm not even getting the maximum out of it--but I'm too much of a low-roller to go much higher than that.
     
  7. mrdeadx

    mrdeadx Tourist

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    Thanks gradytripp, I'll have a look into that too!
     
  8. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    None of these bankroll management strategies will help you win more in the long run.

    If you find them fun, go with it, but it only affects the distribution of your results.
     
  9. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I have found this to be the easiest:
    Simple plus/minus count on a two-deck pitch game... since about half the two decks is cut-away, you're effectively playing a full single deck...a bit more if it's a two-deck shoe. So, there's no math needed to factor in number-of-decks-remaining.
    I increase to 1.5x base bet on a +2... 2x base bet on a +3... 2.5x or 3x base bet on +4... 4x or 5x base bet on a +5. For any count of -2 or worse, I reduce to half of my base bet, unless the table minimum prevents me from doing so.
    I also take note of Aces & 5s as they leave the deck.

    One observation to the OP: I noticed that you double up on a loss. This is basically the 'small-martingale' betting "system"... I would strongly caution you against such a betting strategy.
    If you wish to avoid counting, but still want to vary your bets, I would suggest a 'progression" following a win, rather than following a loss... shoot for 3 consecutive wins, then return to your base-bet...
    (e.g. - bet $10, win, bet $20, win, bet $40 win, go back to $10 & start over.)
    Good luck!
    :beer:
     
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  10. Jordan

    Jordan Caveman

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    A betting strategy I use for BJ is to increase my bet by one unit EVERY hand I win, and start back at my base unit each time I loose. My base unit is usually $25, so start with 25, win, bet 50, win bet 75, win bet 100 etc....loose at any point, back down to 25...(or YOUR base unit, which can be 10, 100 etc). On a slightly different topic, I'm a slot/VP player and for some reason struggle to increase my base unit to anything over $50, going to try to increase it to 100 for upcoming trip and see how I make out!
     
  11. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    I have a similar strategy to Jordan. If I win a hand I will sometime increase by $5 or $10. Like bump from $15 base bet to $20 or $25 instead of a full unit press. When the double or split goes south the full press really stings.
     
  12. bobby jones

    bobby jones Low-Roller

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    I do something like this as well but, stop increasing after five wins in a row and count back down to my starting bet. I can count on one finger then number of times I have won ten hands in a row in my life but, have many times won five in a row. ie I would do the following 5-10-15-20-25-20-15-10-5. If I lose I would go back to 5 and start again in this example. I know all these progression strategies are not supposed to work but, they add some extra level of entertainment.
     
  13. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    Progressive betting no matter what form or method you use are a bad idea, YOU WILL loose over time (sometimes in a very short period of time). The only way to get an advantage is to count, and if you count convince the dealer to show you the burn card at the beginning of the shoe (easier said than done). OH and that brings up another topic, don't play on CSM's or shitty 6 to 5 tables. Find yourself the best rules you can find and play.
     
  14. mrdeadx

    mrdeadx Tourist

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    Thank you too all. I'm going to have to get practising with the count by the look of things. Should be interesting keeping up after a Long Island Ice Tea or two :beer:
     
  15. Samstown man

    Samstown man MIA

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    Hasn't been a bad idea for me for over 20 years, but to each his own opinion on this. I use progressive betting, and am a winning BJ player.
     
  16. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Well - actually, if you're NOT going to count, the CSM games (with all other factors/rules identical) are the best ones to play...no swings in the makeup of the "remaining" cards, since the 'makeup' never changes.
    Obviously, (for example), if you're choice is between counting a 2-deck or 6-deck game & give up "surrender", or play a CSM with surrender, you give up surrender & count.
    I can tell you though, that I would have no problem at all playing a CSM that was S17, RSA, DAS, DAT, with LS. That game has a 0.2866% house edge.
    By comparison, a two-deck game with H17, and no DAS, LS or RSA? House edge is 0.60225%. Now, with a decently-maintained plus/minus count, the two-deck game can become a positive-expectation game, but not by much.
    If one is drinking & partying a bit with friends and doesn't currently have the discipline to properly count, flat-betting a CSM (with good rules) works quite nicely.

    As for finding the best rules? Again - if all other issues are identical, then I agree... but they're not identical; the 'best rules' are typically restricted to 'high limit' areas/rooms. Many of us cannot afford to play at $100-$300 minimum tables.
    So, we play the best games available at the table-minimum we're comfortable with.
    If you're downtown, that would be (IMO) the two-deck game at the El Cortez. $5 min, 3:2, H17, DAS permitted.
     
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  17. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I've tested "4-win" & "3-win" progressions a few times over the years & it has never worked for me. Perhaps I'm just unlucky, but it sure seems like there are an awful lot of losses after one win, while there are very few '3-wins-in-a-row'....even fewer 4-wins.
     
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  18. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    If you aren't counting, then you're a statistical anomaly.
     
  19. bigalbr

    bigalbr VIP Whale

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    You're not going to win. Progressive betting will bust you faster than Martingale betting. The difference is that progressive betting generates bigger wins when you win. If you're a player that buys in for $500 and plays until it's $1500 or you bust, you will hit $1500 more often with the progressive bet system. If you just want to maximize your play time, Martingale or just flat betting is the right way to go. In general you should view winning sessions as a rebate on your cost of entertainment.
     
  20. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    (reference to earlier post about not counting, but always winning)

    I do believe there are some people that can be very good at not only subconscious counting, but getting close to perfect play. And many of those do not even know it. They are just good math memories. Couple that with a strong will to not get STUPID trying to win back their losses (me) can result in long term winning players.

    There is a wide range of capability, and most people do not realize their own variance. We have all seen those folks with soft 16 that have to think and count over and over before making a decision. Not stupid, just different levels of math capability.
     
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