1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Blackjack at the Plaza

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Drambler, May 1, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Drambler

    Drambler High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    Columbus OH
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    I am thinking of maybe staying at the Plaza. I poked around a bit and it seems people think the casino is bad. Are the rules on the blackjack games that bad?
     
  2. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,401
    Location:
    mn
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    Last few times I've been there it has been worse than dead, I recall one table with a low min and decent rules, but it had a continuous shuffler. I played alone with a sullen dealer for a few min and left, never to return for the trip. No reason whatsoever to have continuous shufflers if no one is playing to begin with.

    Nothing wrong with staying at the plaza and playing elsewhere however, by the way they must really be desperate, I just received an offer of 3 nights free and a modest free play, but I haven't put a nickle in their machines in years and give them almost zero table play(I have played some at the LVC).
     
  3. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    I stayed and played there in March.
    Room was nice... and they had a great blackjack table: Two-deck shoe game, 3:2, with DAS... most of the time it was $10 min... during 'prime time' (after about 8PM), it went up to $25. Early morning, it was actually $5.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  4. Drambler

    Drambler High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    Columbus OH
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    Thanks for the replies. That double deck game sounds great. It's hard to find DAS downtown.
     
  5. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    I'll be there in two weeks. I'll post most of the downtown blackjack conditions when I get back.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  6. Drambler

    Drambler High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    Columbus OH
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    That would be great. I thank you in advance for doing that.
     
  7. gambler

    gambler VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,289
    Location:
    Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Did you mean DAS specifically on a double deck game?

    Don't mean to get technical but DAS is widely found downtown...Golden Gate, Plaza, LV Club, The D, El Cortez... Just didn't want anyone new to the board thinking that DAS is hard to find. :peace:

    DAS on double deck is a little harder to find for sure, especially at lower minimums. Unless it's changed in recent months, last I remember 4 Queens, Binion's and the D have it but at high minimums. I've seen $5-$10 limits on double deck at the Plaza and LV Club but it's certainly not consistent. When it's available seems to be based more on the whims of the pitboss (whether he feels up to dealing with customers that day or not) and whether the stars are aligned correctly. Some trips it's available and some trips it's not. It's been reported on here that El Cortez has consistently good rules on double deck.

    Like Topcard, I'll be there soon too so will look for any updates.
     
  8. Drambler

    Drambler High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    Columbus OH
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    Yea I mean DAS on a double deck game. I know it's all over the shoe games. I'll admit other than the El Cortez I haven't played much double deck downtown in a while. I was going to play at the Golden Gate but the game was in their high limit area at $50.
     
  9. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,669
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    35
    actually, el cortez (and fremont) have single deck $5 minimum bj games a lot of the time. maybe goes up during busy times but mostly $5 table.
     
  10. OnTheHorizon

    OnTheHorizon Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    358
    Location:
    Northern Ohio
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    I played at the Plaza last summer and was not impressed...the place was dead and the dealers were on automatic (not very friendly). I went to Binions after about 20 mins of play.
     
  11. Drambler

    Drambler High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    Columbus OH
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    I've played the great single deck at the El Co but is the Fremont game 3-2 or a 6-5 payout? I've not seen a single deck 3-2 game any other place than the El Cortez.

    That game is great but I never win at it ever.
     
  12. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    El-Co is the only one with a 3:2 single deck (downtown)... however, DAS is not permitted at that table.
    The Boyd properties have plenty of $5 & $10 2-deck pitch games, but no DAS.
    Still, those 2-deck games are a lot of fun, especially at MSS.

    The Plaza was certainly slower than its neighbors, but when I was gambling - they were hardly 'dead'. The 2-deck shoe always had a few players and was often full or full minus 1 or 2.

    There was one morning - about 7AM - when I wanted to play it & it was closed. When I came back through about 2 hours later, it was open @ $10 min.
    So, yeah - it's not as consistent as the El-Co's 2-deck, and the Boyd tables are also 24/7.
    Typically, I don't care for 6-to-8 deck shoe games, as counting them is seems virtually pointless. The CSM game at Golden Gate is a fun table, and I will periodically play that one (at least the count stays at zero or near zero for every hand).
    This next trip, I'll look for the 8-deck shoe at the Nugget. From what I've read, it's a $5/$10 table, 3:2 with DAS and late surrender. If so, I would find that very attractive.
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  13. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    Counting a shoe game can be just as effective as a 2-deck game. The main difference is that you'll often go through the first couple decks without a count big enough to raise your bet, (and sometimes an entire shoe). However, when the count does go up it can STAY there and you often get LOTS of hands dealt at a high count, so you get a lot more large bets placed. Many of my biggest wins have been at shoe games for just this reason. With the 2-deck game you're getting those high counts reset at every shuffle which comes quickly, of course, so you just don't get that long stretch of high counts to bet into.

    All that being said, I still prefer the 2-deck game, but I'm never adverse to a shoe if the rules are decent. Also, it's easier to find minimums less than $25 on the shoe games. If you look around you can find surrender and RSA, and shoes almost never have weird take-back rules like NDAS. Also, finding deep penetration really improves the score on a shoe game. I found several 8-deck games last Vegas trip with only 1-deck cut off.
     
  14. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    Wade... I sort-of figured I would have to use a multiple based on my 2-deck count... I press a unit on a +2, 2 units on a +3 & 4 units on a +5... I flat bet zero to +1. I go to table minimum (if lower than my base unit) on any negative count.

    So, if my numbers are based on 2 decks, I would multiply my count/raises by four for an 8-deck game? By 3 for a 6-deck game?
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  15. thebucket

    thebucket VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Midwestern US
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    13
    Maybe try the Red 7?

    For a powerful-enough-to-be-effective unbalanced counting system (an unbalanced system reduces the mathematical overhead of dealing with multiple decks), I'd recommend the Red 7 count.

    Red 7 Count Instructions

    Enjoy!
     
  16. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    An interesting read...thanks. It's very similar to the simple plus/minus count I use. (I also tend to notice 5s and aces separately when I'm counting, and that will impact my bets as well.)

    The 'red 7s' being a plus card is an interesting variation, but it seems to be offset by the less-aggressive press on +2 & +3 counts.

    Now, using this with starting count of -12 on a 6-deck game (-16 for 8-decks) seems to make sense...and as Wade pointed out, positive counts would be rare - but when they do happen, they can last waaaaay longer than they do in a 2-deck game.

    So, I will test this on the GG 6-deck shoe and GN's 8-deck.
    Starting with such a high negative will actually help me, as I will be flat-betting until I get to zero. It will be fun if I actually get to see a zero or higher count during a shoe... and if it never happens, no harm. If it does happen, my view on counting 6 or more decks may change forever!

    I doubt that I'll go with an 8-unit spread (as suggested)... I'm so used to my 5 unit, I'll have to be 'sold' on this count before I start spreading that high.

    I suppose that, since it's a 6 or 8 deck shoe, the "heat" of an 8-spread one would almost certainly feel on a 2-deck game becomes non-existent.
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  17. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    A couple things. At a $10 shoe game you can spread from $10 to $100 with a much tinier risk of heat than spreading $25 to $250 at a 2-deck game.

    I don't know what count system you are using now, but you have identified the correct starting point for Red 7: always -2 times the number of decks. When you get to zero, you start betting more. Getting to high counts isn't 'rare' in 6-deck, but it takes a bit longer at the beginning of the shoe.

    I've modified the actual numbers I use in my head. In a 6-deck game I don't start at -12, rather I start at 10 and when I hit 22 that's the first raised bet. 8-deck I'll start a 6 and 2-deck I'll start at 8 (and raise my bet at 12). This way I seldom need to use any negative numbers.

    You can decide on your own how quickly you raise your bets. At the 2-deck $25 game I just use the last digit: 12 = 2 chips, 13=3, 14=4, etc. (I usually stop at $150 unless it gets to 20 or more). At a $10 shoe I'll still want to get to my $100 max bet by 26, so it's something like 10/25/40/50/75/100 (but willing to fudge these around.)
     
  18. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    Right now, I limit my counting to 2-deck games only... and I spread $10 to $50. That has been relatively "heat-free" over the years (except for at the Cal, and even then, only for one session).
    I use a simple 2 thru 6 = +1 each, 7-8-9 neutral, 10 thru A = -1 each. I bet $10 (or $5, if possible) on any negative count. $10 on even or +1. $15-$20 on +2. $25-$30 on +3. $40-$50 on +4 or better.

    What I'm thinking about trying is a 6-deck shoe, H17, DAS w/ late surrender (if I can find it downtown, preferably, with a $5 minimum for those counts that drop below -12). I'll bet $20 on +1 or better, and add $5 for each additional +1, to a maximum of $50 to $60, using my my current count, but then also counting the red 7s as +cards.

    Once I see positive results from counts that are +1 and higher, I may get a bit more aggressive.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  19. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,137
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    8
    Could you point me to the best spot downtown - walking distance (as we are staying at the GN) to likely find a $5 pitch game?

     
  20. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    Closest? The Fremont...but remember - no DAS at Boyd properties.
    You will also find plenty of $5 & $10 pitch games at MSS & Cal, both an easy walk from GN....but again, no DAS.

    Someone posted that 4-Queens currently has a $10 2-deck pitch game, but I haven't personally noticed one there in quite a while... but then, I didn't think they had one, so I wasn't really looking. I'll check it out on my May trip.

    (BTW - I'm not including 6:5 games or other blackjack-variations, as those aren't actually "blackjack" as far as I'm concerned).

    The best two-deck game downtown, in my opinion, is the El-Co 2-deck shoe.
    Most-fun pitch games? MSS - and that's because the dealers there always seem to be a hoot...fun tables there.
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.