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Table Games BJ 3 card hard 16, do you stand or hit?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by SandPete, Apr 26, 2014.

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  1. SandPete

    SandPete Low-Roller

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    Last trip I was playing a fair bit BJ, one night had a guy playing at same table, seemed to play basic strategy, but then he stood on a 3 card hard 16. Asked him politely why. He said he always stand on 3+ card 16s, that the odds are slightly less bad compared to hitting then.
    Tried to read up on it when I got back home, seems some advocate what he was doing, another version is standing when the hard 16 has a 4 and/or a 5 in it.
    I'm almost hard coded to hit my 16s against dealer 7+ (if I can't surrender)
    Should I change? What do you all do?
     
  2. jpeter1093

    jpeter1093 Tourist

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    You didn't say what the dealer had...
     
  3. SandPete

    SandPete Low-Roller

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    Hm.. fairly sure it was a face card, for sure 7+
     
  4. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    i always hit.

    how do i put this nicely alot of asians dont like to hit on 16 and its not uncomon to see people not hit i belive its the wrong move others will disagree as a 16 will never beat a 7, 8, 9 10 or ace,thats my 2 cents
     
  5. RC

    RC Low-Roller

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    One very small little change to BS for 2-6 deck games is to stand on your 16 if it has 3 cards total and is against a dealer's 10 card
     
  6. lvmb

    lvmb Low-Roller

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    Stand on a 3 card 16 is correct, but I sometimes forget to do it. Like the previous poster I'm almost hard wired to hit.

    There seem to be very very few people who know that one, and you usually end up with some "feedback" from the table.
     
  7. Tubbs

    Tubbs High-Roller

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    16 v dealer 10 I stand on 3+ cards if I have a 4 or 5 in my hand, otherwise hit. That's about as good as you can do without counting or learning a lot of composition dependent plays.

    With 2 cards surrender is the best option but after that it's all absolutely marginal so hit or stand makes very little difference, even at higher stakes.
     
  8. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    In a no surrender game, if you're hard coded to hit 16 vs. 7+, just go with it. The difference is small enough to really not worry about. Any other basic strategy mistake is probably worse than this one. Especially not surrendering 16 v 10 when you're allowed to..

    And note this exception to stand on a 3+ card 16 is 16 vs. 10 only; you still always hit vs 7,8 and surrender when allowed/hit vs 9. This last sentence alone making always hitting 16 vs 7+ in a no surrender game the default rule to learn first.
     
  9. SW

    SW Well-Known Member

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    The majority of the time, I'll go ahead and hit it.
     
  10. lvmb

    lvmb Low-Roller

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    That's interesting about the 10 only. I found out about this rule from the Wizard Of Odds site and he doesn't restrict it to 10 only for the multi deck games I usually play.

    http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/18/

    He does say that the tables on that page are a simplification, so I guess your source is more thorough, or you're playing double or single deck?
     
  11. breanna61

    breanna61 Super Moderator

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    From W of Odds re this play, i.e. Standing on 3 card 16 containing a 4 or 5 in > 4 deck shoe game against the dealers 10.......

    The two right numbers in the bottom row show that the overall expected value for hitting is -0.540355 and for standing is -0.540293. So standing is the marginally better play. Following this rule will result in an extra unit once every 1117910 hands. It would take about 5 years playing blackjack 40 hours a week before this piece of advice saved the player one unit.

    Probably not worth pissing everyone at the table off and having to explain why it is the better play.:eek:
     
  12. Tubbs

    Tubbs High-Roller

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    I make it 1 unit every 16000 hands. I did say it was marginal in an earlier post!

    Like a lot of gambling play, it's something you do instinctively once you have learned the rule. But it will not make a whole lot of difference.

    As to pissing off the whole table, well there's no reason for that to happen.:peace:
     
  13. Tubbs

    Tubbs High-Roller

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    Interesting stuff. I don't think it's a question of simplification, more likely that a good single deck game is so rare. I am not aware of any casino with S17 on a 3:2 1 deck game. I know El Cortez has the 1 deck with H17.
     
  14. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    But it's not dealt to you every time. If that happens, you need to find a better dealer. :evillaugh The saving of 1 unit in 1.11 million hands played overall thanks to this rule is likely correct.
     
  15. Tubbs

    Tubbs High-Roller

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    Good point! :eek:
     
  16. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Nothing is worse than standing on that 16 and seeing a 4 or 5 pop as the next card, while other players groan and give you that "you're an idiot look", busting isn't that bad, you expect to bust that 16.
     
  17. SandPete

    SandPete Low-Roller

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    Good info, thanks all! Think I'll just keep hitting my 3card+ 16s anyway they come up, not worth the stinky eye :peace:
     
  18. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Avoiding that is definitely more important. But heck, who gets the stinky eye more? Those who hit 16 v. 10, or those who stand on it? I really don't play enough BJ to have noticed which one upsets people more.
     
  19. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I've certainly caught more grief for hitting my 16 vs 10 than I've ever seen given to those who stand.
    It's usually accompanied with a comment along these lines:
    "Never hit 16! You bust way more often than you make a hand!" (true, but only half of the picture!)
    "You should stand with that! You never know - the dealer could have a crap card in the hole." (also true, but ignores the greater probability that he has 7+ in the hole...at odds of 7 to 5).
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  20. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    ive never seen that one in fact usualy the next card out is a 5 or 6 and then they guy who doesnt hit throws his cards in disgust at the dealer, i see time after time.:cry:
    hit and assume the dealer has a real hand.

    i palayed yester 6 deck basicaly every card was a 16 or 15 for my first 2 , pulled a 4 ,5, or 6 almost every time , playing 500$ a hand made over 80% of my hands, played about half the shoe made 5 grand and left, i figured my luck would evetualy run out.
     
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