1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games BJ, 1D, DD or 6D?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Bamalewie, Oct 23, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bamalewie

    Bamalewie Tourist

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Pensacola
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    I'm not real knowledgable on BJ strategy aside from basic play. What are the advantages to single and double deck games (aside from counting) over 6 decks?
     
  2. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,199
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    In terms of chances of winning, counting is mostly it.

    It terms of feel and atmosphere, there are a lot more shuffles, so it can be a slower game. And a lot of them deal your hands face down and let you touch the cards, which gives the game a different feel.

    Its worth noting, though, that especially at lower limits, it is tougher to find good rules at a single or double deck game.
     
  3. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,384
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    49
    All other things being equal: the fewer the decks, the lower the house advantage.

    Of course, all other things usually aren’t equal. Single and double deck games usually have other rules that benefit the house – things like being paid 6:5 on a BJ, dealer hitting (vs. standing) on a soft 17, certain doubling restrictions, certain splitting restrictions, no surrender etc.

    Unfortunately, they don’t make it too easy on you. Finding the “best” table isn’t a matter of just finding the table that uses the fewest number of decks. You have to take all the rules into consideration.
     
    Number 50!
  4. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,421
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    Single deck has a pretty significant advantage over 6 decks, even without counting. Almost half a percent in expected value. Double deck gives you about a fifth of one percent advantage.

    Again, these numbers don't factor in anything for counting.
     
  5. Bamalewie

    Bamalewie Tourist

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Pensacola
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    dealer hitting on soft 17 is an advantage for the player right?
     
  6. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,421
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    Absolutely not. Dealer standing on a soft 17 is better for the player.
     
  7. Llew

    Llew Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    363
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    Standing. 17 is such a weak hand that it outweighs the additional possibility of (eventually) busting when hitting on soft 17.
     
  8. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    First, the odds are extremely high that on any single-deck game you'll find they've screwed up the rules (usually by paying 6:5 on blackjack, but often they'll hose you other ways like doubling only on 10 and 11 and no double after split), so any gain by having fewer decks has been removed and then some. And you'll also find you get to watch the dealer shuffle ALL THE TIME, as they'll often deal two or even just one round before shuffling, (depending on the # of players).

    Good 2-deck games are available, almost always have at least a $25 minimum and you may have one bad rule like no double after split (a CET thing). For the best rules you usually have to be in the high-limit salon.

    H17 (hitting soft 17) is ubiquitous in Vegas, but you'll find S17 (stand on soft 17) at some of the MGM properties, usually at the higher limit tables.

    Many shoe games have gone to 8 decks which hurts the player (compared to 6), but you'll get more action as the shuffling isn't so frequent. You can also play at the continuous shuffling machines (CSM) where the number of decks isn't important (it's 4,5 or 6 in there) because they just keep feeding the discards into the machine after every few rounds. For a basic strategy player this isn't a bad deal as your basic strategy plays will be 'correct' all the time. The one downside is you'll get dealt more hands per hour which exposes more of your money to the house edge. This is just a minor difference, though, now that most shoe games use an automatic shuffler, minimizing the down-time between shoes.

    The percentage differences in house edge aren't a huge thing between all of these (except the 6:5 thing which should be avoided like the plague). I like playing two decks, but for low limits (like $10) you'll basically have to play a shoe or CSM. I discount playing the 6:5 single deck games completely.

    Warning, there are some places that will hit you with the 6:5 rule even on 2-deck or 8-deck shoes, usually in the 'party pits'. Read the cloth or a posted sign on the table. I believe the Rio even 'features' a regular blackjack game with sexy dealers that pays 1:1 for a blackjack.

    By the way, the main reason that fewer decks is better (everything else being equal) is that more blackjacks are dealt. The dealer gets her fair share as well, but winning 3:2 more often is very important to improving your chances.
     
  9. Bamalewie

    Bamalewie Tourist

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Pensacola
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    Thanks for all the info, I have about 2 days until I get out there, I'm trying to get basic strategy down so that I don't have to think about it but there are always those hands that I'm not sure about. Anyway, good luck tou y'all in your gambling, I'm gonna give em hell while I'm there.
     
  10. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    706
    Location:
    NYC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    I cannot stress this enough to everyone: PLEASE DO NOT PLAY 6:5 BLACKJACK! The number of decks in regards to this issue is meaningless.

    6:5 natural payoff increases the house edge from about half a percent to near 2% (And that's if you play perfect Basic Strategy). The more we play these games the more casinos will continue to put them in.
     
  11. Bamalewie

    Bamalewie Tourist

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Pensacola
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    Is it possible to find less than $25 min with 3:2 BJ payoff?
     
  12. jamesxnj

    jamesxnj VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,089
    Location:
    FL
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    17
    Yes they are out there..Just have to walk around..
    And while doing so stop by a 6/5 table and ask the dealer where one is..Speaking loud enough for the table to hear,inevitably the people playing the table will ask the dealer what the difference is.I do it every trip,hoping to educate newer BJ players that do not know better.
     
  13. dodgydave

    dodgydave Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    London
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Table minimums really depend on the time and day, Fridays and Saturdays will generally have higher mins, as will evenings. Daytime midweek will obviously be quieter and lower.
    Some casinos will let you have a Basic Strategy crib card on the table with you, so you can use the correct play.
    I play at the Bellagio, and I always have a Strat card, when I went to the Wynn they didn't allow it,but most sell them in their gift shops.
    Good Luck.
     
  14. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,199
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    For shoe and CSM games, yes its very possible. Avoid party pits and you'll find this almost everywhere (even CET props). But most of them will be H17.

    For single or double deck, its a bit harder. You can find them, but you may have to go off strip or downtown.
     
  15. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,787
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    23
    Bellagio and Aria had plenty of regular (3:2) games at the $10 and $15 levels even on weekends recently, so I don't expect you'll have much trouble.
     
  16. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,421
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    At every MGM property. You can get 3:2 for $5 most days at Excalibur, and many days at NYNY (not weekends.) Monte Carlo will have $5 some weekdays and most early mornings, but will grandfather you in to that rate if you stay and they raise it. MGM has $10 almost all the time except big concert or fight nights. All these games are 3:2 BJ.
     
  17. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    If you plan on spending time downtown, the El Cortez is a solid place to apply your basic strategy. They have single-deck games with $5 limits and blackjack pays 3:2.
     
  18. Boogaloo

    Boogaloo Low-Roller

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    As others have stated, definitely.

    In threads like these, I'll always post a link to The Wizard's Blackjack Survey - it's not up-to-the-minute, but I find that it's generally accurate in finding the games with the best odds in Vegas:

    http://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey/
     
Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.