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Best A5 Wagyu???

Discussion in 'Restaurants & Buffets' started by RiddickBull, May 30, 2014.

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  1. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    After reading broncofn TR, it got me thinking about steak, I mean real steak. I will be there next week and decided I will get some A5 Wagyu.

    Any recommendations on steak houses that have the best A5?
     
  2. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    I'd advise asking whomever is offering this to try to prove up the supply chain if they're touting this as "Kobe" 'cause there still is only a small amount of this stuff in the states. A few years back when everyone was going off on the "real" stuff, it wasn't real.

    Larry Olmsted, a writer for Forbes, revisits this matter from time to time and I'd brush up on his updates earlier this year.
     
  3. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    Yes this is true and I read the article which someone posted, but I'm sure prime and SW still can get it.

    Riddick, I've had it at SW as you read and at Prime. It is an unbelievable taste but it is costly.
     
  4. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    Also, wouldn't it be false advertising for their offerings if it wasn't real A5?
     
  5. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    High-end Vegas steakeries were selling it when it wasn't even being brought into the country. Just a caveat that while you might find truly awesome meat, it might not be what the price-jack would indicate.
     
  6. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    It would, but that means what in the American marketplace?

    Look, not trying to piss on anyone's parade. But with this whole "real" Kobe vs. likely-just-as-good Wagyu from elsewhere, a lotta people were buying stuff that simply wasn't what they thought it was. It couldn't have been. GM says it makes great cars yet recalls millions seeming every other week.
     
  7. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    ken2v is correct. A few more notes:
    * As ken2v said, true Kobe beef has only been imported in the last year and a bit -- and even then, in vanishingly small quantities. Some places (e.g., Gordon Ramsay) claimed they offered true Kobe before it was ever imported into the U.S. -- an obvious lie.
    * In Japan, the term "Kobe beef" is trademarked (or whatever it is they call such a thing). The U.S. doesn't recognize such a trademark, so restaurants are free to use the term pretty much however they like. "Wagyu," which translates to something like "Japanese cow," is used even more freely.
    * The only place which just might offer true Kobe beef is Wynn, which apparently has some sort of arrangement with the Kobe Marketing Association. However, as some of its restaurant menus note, even there most will either be some other Japanese wagyu, or an American imitation. The last time I checked, this was true at Mizumi and SW.
    * I tried to get information from Wynn as to where on its premises one might get true Kobe -- and was thoroughly frustrated. I made three phone calls, and sent two emails. No one seemed to know anything concrete, and couldn't put me in touch with anyone who did. I asked to speak to a chef who might know, but never succeeded.
    * In any case, Kobe isn't necessarily the best. It's merely the most famous. Credible competitors are found in several other Japanese prefectures. Kobe is from Hyogo prefecture.
    * Kobe comes in both grades 5 (best) and 4 (still very good). The "A" in "A5" is not a designation of quality, but every marketer knows that "A" sure sounds good!
    * Even within grade 5, there are variations in quality. There's something called BMS (beef marbling scale), which measures the quality of fat marbling. For grade 5, BMS values run from 8 (very good) to 12 (the best; rarely if ever available in the U.S). Consider yourself lucky if you can find a piece of meat with a BMS value of 10.
    * I've had what I believe to be grade 5, BMS 10 (and even higher) a number of times -- and thoroughly enjoyed it. In general, it was served not as steak, but as a small portion of meat briefly seared, with a tiny bit of sauce/flavoring. Twice, I had it as a steak. While I enjoyed the steaks a lot, there are those folks who make a good case in saying that's not how it's intended to be eaten. Some folks may find it too rich, or lacking sufficient grain.
     
  8. pphold

    pphold pp Park Place Degenerate

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    So with that being said Can you really get A5 Kobe beef or just BS A5 Wagyu?

    Any real way to know?

    I'm going to Vegas next week

    Tender in Luxor claims to have both wagyu and KOBE A-5.

    wagyu Kobe-style beef, Dixon Ranch, North Dakota
    (boneless 12 oz)
    75
    Japanese Kobe wagyu beef (A-5 grade), Japan
    (boneless 8 oz) 95


    So how do you know if you get A-5 Kobe or wagyu?

    i have a few comps so the meal is free.
     
  9. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    "So with that being said Can you really get A5 Kobe beef or just BS A5 Wagyu?" Lacking proof, I would assume I was NOT getting true Kobe. Again, as noted above, other A5 wagyu may be as good as, or better than, true Kobe.

    "Any real way to know?" Yes. true Kobe beef should be accompanied by a certificate of authenticity. There will be a logo from the Kobe Marketing Association, and also a certificate (in Japanese) that describes the particular piece of beef in detail, including origin (Hyogo prefecture) and serial number. Each cow has its own serial number, which should be on the certificate -- which can be checked against a database of beef sent to the United States. Ask to see the certificate, take a picture, and we could probably puzzle out the details.

    "Tender in Luxor claims to have both wagyu and KOBE A-5.

    wagyu Kobe-style beef, Dixon Ranch, North Dakota
    (boneless 12 oz)
    75
    Japanese Kobe wagyu beef (A-5 grade), Japan
    (boneless 8 oz) 95"
    The first item says "Kobe-style", and is from North Dakota, so we know it's not true Kobe beef, and is almost certainly not true wagyu either, but perhaps some sort of wagyu-Angus hybrid. The second item is $95 for 8 oz. That alone tells me it's almost certainly not Kobe. As noted above, ask to see the certificate; also ask from exactly where in Japan the beef originates.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
  10. pphold

    pphold pp Park Place Degenerate

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    Looks like I'm going to the WYNN

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2014/01/07/the-new-truth-about-kobe-beef-2/

    Thanks to the recent changes, the single easiest way to eat real Kobe beef in the US with confidence is to visit the Wynn Las Vegas resort, which is obviously not a great solution since it is very limiting to all those people who are not visiting Las Vegas. Unfortunately it is the reality of the current situation. As of December 15, 2013 Wynn became to first US end-user certified by the Kobe Beef Council as an authorized restaurant partner

    Wynn is the sole such outlet in the nation. The certification applies to the entire property, and a spokesperson for Wynn told me that Kobe beef initially would be offered not just in the signature SW Steakhouse, but also in the Wing Lei, Mizumi and Wazuzu restaurants, and possibly other outlets down the road. To be sure, some of the Kobe beef being imported right now is ending up in other quality restaurants around the country, but given the total lack of labeling regulation in the US, where pretty much anything can be sold as “Kobe beef,” the burden of proof remains on the consumer, at least outside of Wynn Las Vegas.
     
  11. jaybert

    jaybert Low-Roller

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    I had Japanese wagyu at Cut in palazzo Oct 2012. It def wasn't Kobe, but some other prefecture. Something like 8oz for $160 or maybe more. My friend and I both got one , and neither of us couple finish more than 1/2 of it. It was cooked like a normal steak which I think was a mistake. It was too rich to eat like that in my opinion and I think they way they cooked it probably ruined the meat some as well.

    I contrast, I was just in tokyo and had some real Kobe at a shabu shabu restaurant (well known one, certified by the Kobe people as having authentic Kobe) and it as sliced very thin, and then you cooked it yourself for a couple seconds in a broth and then dipped it in a light sauce before eating. That was pretty amazing, though we also had some other non-Kobe prime beef there, and it tasted almost as good.
     
  12. lasvegas_limo_driver

    lasvegas_limo_driver Vegas Guru at Infinity

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    There is lots of issues with restaurants and places that cut the meat in general. Most places now are selling an American Kobe which goes against the Japanese Kobe registration of cattle. Wagyu in japanese just means japanese cow. The other thing is the Australian Wagyu (kobe style).
     
  13. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    It's bottle service for old people. :evillaugh :poke:
     
  14. keno60

    keno60 VIP Whale

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    So Wagyu is not the breed?
     
  15. lasvegas_limo_driver

    lasvegas_limo_driver Vegas Guru at Infinity

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    Yes and no. there are 4 breeds that are considered Wagyu. most of american wagyu is wagyu/angus half breeds
     
  16. soled905

    soled905 Low-Roller

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    This deserves a ha ha. Good job.
     
  17. keno60

    keno60 VIP Whale

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    Thanks for the info.
     
  18. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    So if you order it and ask for it "extra well done" would the waiter just roll up the menu and beat you with it?
     
  19. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    We're at a high-end chophouse with friends. One likes here cow, how shall I say, desecrated. She orders a USDA Prime filet and asks for it well done. The server, without missing a beat and without her getting even a whiff of the inherent sarcasm says, "Would you like us to butterfly that so we can assure it's doneness?"
     
  20. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    This same thing happened to my friend on my last trip to Cut. He got a well done filet mignon butterfly style.
     
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