1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Bellagio comps

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Beethoven9th, Sep 21, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Beethoven9th

    Beethoven9th Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I don't know if anyone knows the answer to the following question, but I figured I'd give it a shot.

    I play craps at the Bellagio maybe a couple times per week, but I never use my player's card since my goal is to win (or lose!) a predetermined amount and then get the heck out of there. Plus, I've heard that the Bellagio isn't exactly generous with their comps,

    Anyway, my question is this: Approximately how many hours of play would it take to earn a simple buffet if I'm playing craps with an average bet of $100? Note that I only bet when I'm the shooter, although I do tend to play when there are just 1 or 2 other players at the table. Also, I tip the dealers much, much more than the average player. (But I do realize that this may or may not have any effect on comps) Thanks in advance, guys!
     
  2. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    6,842
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    Couple things to keep in mind: first, I assume none of your $100 avergae bet is an odds bet (pretty sure Bellagio, like almost every casino, does not count that toward your rating) and it also depends on the price of the buffet. Also asusming you are one of only two players at the table and you only bet when you shoot, you can probably earn enough express comps to cover that buffet with two hours of play. Or place bets on every shooter and you should earn it in an hour
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    10,096
    Location:
    At the tables
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    the B is plenty generous with comps if you play. but craps is one of the lowest theo generators there is. mainly because your same money is at risk roll after roll. it's not like BJ or Bacc or other games where you put a new bet out every hand. so the theo generated is extremely low. but assuming you're actually rated at $100 avg, i'd say you'd need at least 3-4 hours to earn one of their $40 buffets.
     
  4. craps1

    craps1 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    384
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    Not sure what you mean roll after roll. That is generally considered per hand in craps since any 7 can come out each time. avg / hour on the felt is the norm in craps minus the odds, of course.
     
  5. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    10,096
    Location:
    At the tables
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    yes, but the theo is low because on average it's going to take X rolls which takes X minutes before you 7 out. they have all of that calculated and know what they can expect to win from you. it's a lot less than the same avg bet at BJ or Bacc or another table game where each hand takes only much less time. plus it's a very slow game with a full table with all the waiting for bets to be made in between rolls. both of these mean the theo per hour is very low for craps.
     
  6. craps1

    craps1 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    384
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    OP, this might be useful for you.

    http://www.vegastripping.com/compcalculator/

    Putting in your request, your outcome is a buffet, maybe. Granted this calculator is very generic and is only based on standard pass / come. If you play the others (hard ways, place bets, field, horns / etc) then you will have a higher theo, providing the suits accurately adjust for that. Also, consider, if you are jumping in and out, most likely you will not get the most accurate rating.
     
  7. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    11,145
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19
    So, help us help you a bit.

    How much do you have in Express Comps? And, if you have spending some?

    How much do you typically earn in a visit?
     
  8. Tubbs

    Tubbs High-Roller

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    849
    Location:
    Leicester, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    He does not use his card so the answer is a big fat zero!

    I think this is just a case of use the card, be friendly with the pit boss, play for a while and ask about a buffet comp when you have finished. I doubt a buffet comp requires an exact theo of n or more, even these days.
     
  9. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,421
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    For craps, place bets jack up your betting average much better than the same amount risked at come/odds.
     
  10. LAV

    LAV Tourist

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    593
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I am not sure where you got this information. I am pretty certain it's a wild guess on your part rather than true fact. I am no expert on theo generators for games at MGM props, but at CET, craps is one of the better theo generators, especially if you play the inside numbers. True, some places may not rate the odds, but craps by no means is one of the lowest theo generating game.

    But even if I don't play at MGM props much, I strongly doubt that craps is a lower generator of theo than bj and bac. I am just not convinced.
     
  11. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,421
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    If you just play pass and come, then it doesn't generate much. I think that's what Shifter is referring to. If you bet $5 on each hardway, your theo and comps will go up in a hurry...and your bankroll will go down accordingly.
     
  12. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    10,096
    Location:
    At the tables
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Just my experience and others I've talked to with where our theo comes from. BJ does have a low theo but it's a very fast game. Craps has low theo and it's really slow.
     
  13. craps1

    craps1 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    384
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    Craps definately can be slow on a full table with a multitude of bets going on. However, I would argue a craps table with 2 or 3 people who know what they are doing is actually faster than blackjack on a per hour considering all the shuffling of decks going on. So it depends really.
     
  14. LAV

    LAV Tourist

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    593
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Shifter,

    I think you have a lot of knowledge with gaming, but I truly think you are off on this one. Craps does not have a low theo. In fact, it has higher theo than both bj and bac.

    I think if you research thoroughly with appropriate reliable sources, you will see that craps does not have low theo.
     
  15. killa2001

    killa2001 MIA

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    6
    The same money is bet over and over in craps. In baccarat or BJ, new money is bet every hand. In terms of theo, craps does have a higher probability of loosing depending on the bet. If the pass or don't pass line is bet, the theo is less than 1.5%. BJ is less than 0.5% and baccarat is slightly above 1%. The difference is that in craps, you can bet the same money 20 rolls where as BJ and Bac you are betting new money on 20 hands, win or loose.
     
  16. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    10,096
    Location:
    At the tables
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    all i said is it doesn't generate much in comps for me or others that i play with. i don't play a lot, but i'll play an hour or 2 at craps and it will generate almost no theo in my experience. next time i play, i will try to get the exact numbers on my avg bet, time played and theo so i can see for sure.

    yes, that's exactly what i'm saying. one pass line bet, come bet or place bet, etc may stay out there for 10-20 minutes or more. on average it probably stays out there 5-7 minutes or so on a full table. one bet every 5-7 minutes, in BJ and Bacc you'd have made several bets in that amount of time.
     
  17. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    11,145
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19

    Duh... I should start taking my memory pills again, but I forgot where I put them.

    Yea, he needs to use his card. Unless the play is really just short hit and runs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  18. craps1

    craps1 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    384
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    yes, that's exactly what i'm saying. one pass line bet, come bet or place bet, etc may stay out there for 10-20 minutes or more. on average it probably stays out there 5-7 minutes or so on a full table. one bet every 5-7 minutes, in BJ and Bacc you'd have made several bets in that amount of time.[/QUOTE]

    That's techincally bet x number of rolls equals number of "hands" since every roll you can win or lose. You can take them down, press, or hold. each roll providing there is no 7. Where on bacc or bj can you lose 10 or so bets at once? On craps you can.
     
  19. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    10,096
    Location:
    At the tables
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    the number of bets doesn't make a difference as that's why they add up the total to get your avg "bet". you have to look at it the way they casino looks at it. yes, you could win or lose your pass/come/place bet every roll. but many rolls result in pushes. therefore the odds of them winning your money on each roll goes down considerably. it's like pai gow, which also has a very low theo because there's so many pushes.

    the HA of a pass line bet is 1.4%. that would mean out of 1000 rolls of the dice, they're supposed to win 14 bets. so you're supposed to win 493 and they're supposed to win 507. but it doesn't work that way because probably 750 of those rolls are neither 7/11 on the comeout or 7 after the point is established and therefore they result in pushes. so even though you played 1000 rolls, you really only calculate the theo based on the rolls that actually resulted in a win or a loss. let's say you lost 127 and won 123, which is close to 1.4% HA. so even though you played 1000 rolls, they only won 4 bets, not 14 bets. so the true HA they would use in the calculation of your theo is something like 0.4%, which is 1/4 what it would be if every hand had resulted in a decision.

    that's why even though the HA of craps is considerably more than BJ and more than Bacc, the theo calculations they use for craps are so low compared to other games.

    that's the math behind it, but you guys are certainly more than welcome to continue to insist that the theo of craps is not low compared to other games. :)
     
  20. craps1

    craps1 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    384
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    Agreed 100% very low theo on the pass / don't , come / don't come. However, the higher theo comes into play on the horns, hardways, fields, and place bets. These are factored into the ratings. Even though they will tell you x amount per hour in craps, what they don't tell you is how they rated your play to the HA. So if one is only to play the pass line, then yes the theo would be very low.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.