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Table Games Beating the Casino, Craps and the "Free" Odds

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Ben Jammin, Aug 29, 2012.

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  1. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    Craps is the only casino game I know of whereas the player can back up his original bet with 3X,4X,5X,10X,and even up to 100X the original bet amount in some cases, with absolutely no house advantage against the player, with the exception of course of the 1.4% of the original bet amount on the pass line.

    That simply means that if you put up a good sized line bet, say $100 dollars on the pass line, and backed it up with 5X odds, say your point is the 10, if that number comes in you'll be collecting $1000 dollars on that free odds bet, as well as doubling your line bet.

    You'll be walking away with $1200. Not bad huh?!

    Show me any other game where you win win the casino's money without their having the possibility to make one red cent off of you.

    You gotta love it!
     
  2. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Argh! :grrr: You really need to re-read what you type before hitting send. This is such a blatant misstatement of what a zero-percent house edge means, it's hard for me to comment. The casino has an OUTSTANDING possibility of taking ALL your money on your odds bets.
     
  3. DReynolds86

    DReynolds86 Come On, You Blues!

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    For instance, my dumb ass rolling red.
     
  4. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    It has been a few weeks, maybe longer since somebody came up with a sure fire way to beat the casino.

    I think if we get this out to enough people, we should be able to close all of MGM and CET down within a few weeks. Right?
     
  5. ogksteve

    ogksteve Tourist

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    So in other words, it's free money. You just have to go to the casino and pick it up. :banana:
     
  6. earth-3

    earth-3 High-Roller

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    Wasn't it Jimmy the Greek who said about craps, if he had to do it all over again he wouldn't lay odds? That's half the odd's bet right there. The other half, you still have to contend with the more probable seven against your number. That's why you still need luck on your side. It's no gimme.
     
  7. DReynolds86

    DReynolds86 Come On, You Blues!

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    They don't build those big palaces on the backs of winners.
     
  8. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Just for the record, Jimmy the Greek said LAY the odds. He was a consistent “wrong” bettor. By laying the odds, he needed two to three times the bankroll to play and, of course, it gained him no advantage, as he had to put of from 20% to 100% additional for the privilege.

    I know that there are those who will argue, but I think that, given his history, his consistency, and the amount he gambled over the years, we can take his word for it.
     
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  9. earth-3

    earth-3 High-Roller

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    I believe I said "lay" odds not play odds.
     
  10. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    If you want to do a practical exercise in how this will fail, visit Casino Royale for 100x odds. Put down your $5 on the passline and play full $500 odds. There's virtually no house advantage, so your expected value is right around $505 on that bet (just a tiny, tiny bit less.)

    Drop me a note when you're done and let me know how the variance worked out for you.
     
  11. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Indeed you did.

    Just an elaboration on my part by way of agreement! :nworthy:
     
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  12. y2mulder

    y2mulder Low-Roller

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    Future reference:

    Any post where the first 3 words are "BEAT THE CASINO" is going to get flamed to pieces, even if the actual content is a cure for cancer.
     
  13. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Ben Jammin,

    From you posts you have proven yourself to be a smart gambler and, indeed, your post is correct.

    You said, “with the exception of course of the 1.4% of the original bet amount on the pass line.” Correct. The fact that casinos let to take up to 100x odds behind the line can never negate their edge on your pass line wager.

    And, yes, we should always take the maximum odds allowable by our bankroll, so as to take advantage of the only even money bet that a casino will offer us.

    Yet……

    To listen so some players, you’d think that multiple odds is as good as a license to print money. Why do they think this? And why do the casinos offer this opportunity with such a miserly advantage over the players? Do we ever think about it?

    Well, next time you’re at a craps table, try this experiment:

    1. Look at the amount of checks that you have in front of you.

    2. Look at the amount of checks that the biggest player at the table has in front of him.

    4. Look at the total checks that all of the players have combined.

    4. Now, look across the table at the amount of checks that are stacked in front of the boxman! :eek2

    This is their real advantage. No matter what your bet, what odds they offer, what the house’s small advantage, they can outlast you today, tomorrow, and forever!

    They always have more checks back in the cage to bring out to beat you. They were beating players with their unlimited bankroll while you were on the plane to Vegas. They were beating players with their unlimited bankroll just before you walked into the joint. They are going to be beating players with their unlimited bankroll after you leave the table, go back to your room, and after you fall asleep. And when you fly back to your home town and are planning your next Las Vegas vacation – they’re still beating players with their unlimited bankroll.

    The casino’s huge bankroll and their ability to outlast the players is the reason that they offer multiple odds with such a small edge against the player.

    There’s no question that we should be taking every opportunity to take that odds at the craps table, but we shouldn’t be under any illusion as to our prospects if we don’t color up and run for the door on those occasions when we are able to show a profit at the game.
     
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  14. y2mulder

    y2mulder Low-Roller

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    My Previous comment aside, I dont think we need to completely destroy the OP. House edge is down to absolute crumbs at 100X, and I have seen craps rolls wipe out a bank. It can be done. There is no other game out there where the odds are that good, unless you are willing to memorize basic strategy to the letter. You just need the money, and a lucky day.

    Vegas doesnt do this 3/4/5 shit for the hell of it. They are protecting their bank.
     
  15. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Just once, I want to see them have to go to the cage to get more :peace:
     
  16. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Hey! I actually did, one time.

    I was on 4 night cruise out of Port Canaveral, FL and all of the crapshooters became well known to eachother by the final night.

    The table had been extremely cold for the whole trip and by the final night, we'd all taken major hits to our bankrolls.

    One player brought his wife for the final night's festivities and she abolutely shot out the lights! I mean a major monster with pass after pass and every number again and again.

    We actually saw the back wall of the table in front of the boxman, the chips in the bank having been deleted by this terrific shoot. They called for a fill to replentish the bank as Mrs. Shooter just keeps at it. When she finally sevened out every player at the table was at least even for the trip!!

    Now, that's what I call casino hospitality!!
     
    NFL Divisional Playoffs!!
  17. DuckyD77090

    DuckyD77090 Tourist

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    You can always play pai gow and demand that they pay you $19 for every $20 bet and never do the 20-for-1 exchange. They run out of white chips soon enough. Then you offer to color them back at a 4 white:1red ratio! :wink2:

    Interestingly, casinos don't have unlimited rolls. They have reserves that are intended to cover the payout of jackpots, promotions and gaming winnings. You know that $1 Million that you can take a picture of at Binions? That's part of their cash reserves. Still for us red, green and even black-chippers, the multiple tens-of-millions in the reserve might as well be unlimited.

    Somewhat topical, this is why there are those of us here who will say you absolutely need a $2,000-$3,000 bankroll to 'properly' play $10 BJ. If you can all but eliminate your risk of ruin (that is, running out of money and not having any more to play with), you stand a much greater chance of experiencing results closer to your theoretical (loss of ~1.4% of your pass-line bets, regardless of odds behind or ~1-1.5% of your BJ bets, depending on the rules, etc) rather than busting out your entire roll after the wrong run of cards hits at the wrong time.
     
  18. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Craps is like going fishing. One day you are going to get the big one...:evillaugh

    Oh, and about the casino going to the cage to get more chips... I've seen it happen. ( I was the shooter!)

    Unfortunately, it doesn't happen very often.:cry:
     
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  19. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    There's no other bet, with the exception of full pay video poker (over 100% payback) where the casino has no advantage other than the 1.4% on the original pass line bet.

    Sure your money is at risk, but isn't it in any form of gambling? I've seen people bet hundreds on the hard ways, and they hit much less frequently than a 10 or a 4, which will pay 2 to 1.

    The odds are free because they're even in risk. A 7 hits twice as often as a 10, so, 2 to 1 is a zero advantage bet. It just pays off with odds.

    If you get hot and start rolling numbers, those bets are going to come in and if you have several covered it can get quite profitable in short order.

    Just keep $5 on the come on every roll so you can replace your winning bet and put those odds up.

    I was at a small casino in Henderson where everyone was winning and they shut the table down.
     
  20. woodsie

    woodsie High-Roller

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    About once every two years in my experience. :(

    I've been playing craps for 4 years and have been a party to one 11 point roll and one 13 point roll. Much money was made but sadly those epic rolls are few and far between.
     
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