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Slots Bankroll vs. Coin-In = Slots Question?

Discussion in 'Slots' started by dooner, May 16, 2016.

  1. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    I know that slots return is from 82% - 98% depending on denomination, video poker, etc.. What I can't figure out is how some players come to Vegas with a bankroll of $2000 solely for slots play, and still manage to put in $20000-$30000 coin-in over 3 days?

    Even with some good hits, that seems to be good fortune.

    My example is only from my own experience - my slots bankroll is about $2000, and I only average about $8000 coin-in before going broke. Yeah, I average around 80% return, however, my max bet penny slots, or dollar slots just suck money in. I play $100 per machine, then repeat and lather. My bankroll would have to be in the neighborhood of about $5000 to get a $30000 coin-in result?

    Maybe I should not slots anymore - LOL!
     
  2. eaglejohn

    eaglejohn High-Roller

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    $2000 in a 90% machine should average $20,000 coin in. 10% loss
     
  3. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    You may also be playing too high a denomination for your bankroll. Even penny slots can get upwards of $5.00 or so a spin. Max betting penny slots with about 500 to 600 spins an hour, your $2000 may only last a few hours as you won't have much tolerance for the negative swings. The biggest mistake people make at the casino is underbankrolling or over betting their bankroll.

    http://www.casinocenter.com/are-your-bets-too-big-for-your-bankroll/
     
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  4. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Anyone that applies the slot percentage is not playing with a full deck.

    You can just as easily havea a $20 bankroll and win $1,000.
    or
    Have a $1,000 bankroll in win zero.

    I have done both - but more often the second one.

    That 90% or whatever is over the LONG LONG haul. Not like blackjack for example where it averages out over a much shorter time period.
     
  5. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    This is for "decent" video poker (i.e. 98%+ payback) but...you should be able to do $10,000 coin-in on $1000 with ease, if you know basic strategy and play lower-variance games (Dollar Single-line JoB or BP)
     
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  6. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Well, also keep in mind that this forum is likely to have some positive bias in results. Most people like to share "wins" here. The ones that are not doing so well: they are probably leaving the numbers out, not even writing a TR at all (because they think people don't want to read a losing report), or their live TR goes dead because there are no good wins to share! And it's the Internet, there also could be some fudging with numbers, If I wrote a TR with a significant amount of winning pics and still lost $500, but claimed in the TR I won $500, who is really going to know the difference other than me? I doubt many people do that here, but I wouldn't rule it out. I've read a few TRs where their results were a good amount off of what I was going to guess.

    The interesting thing is another forum I post at videopoker.com (as Vman96), there seems to be a significant negative bias in results from regular posters, pointing out how badly they have done. The ones that post less regularly are the ones usually showing off the wins, but who knows how many times they went to the casino in silence in the last few months to hit that royal flush, etc.?
     
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  7. Geogran

    Geogran OTD Tea Sipper

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    Good points, tring. For me as a slot player, it is easier to share the winning trips - but make no mistake, lose we do! I don't maintain my mlife platinum status based on my wins, but on my losses....churn, baby, churn. But it is nice to read those TR's where someone does have a humongous winning trip! Hip hip hooray for those lucky dogs!

    To the OP, I am guessing that with a $2000 slot bankroll resulting in 20-30k coin-in over 3 days, there were some significant wins that were played back in.
     
  8. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Ballpark the theo return of a $1 machine at 10%. That theo return would include hitting all of the various payouts in proportion to their probability, which means it reflects hitting a top-line jackpot.

    IF you get a return of 10%, either you hit a jackpot, or you hit many smaller wins at a greater frequency than the theoretical probability.

    Unless you run a shitload of coin in each trip, over several trips, somewhere between 10% and 20% loss would be normal. Above 20% would be a little unlucky.

    I'll give you an example:

    On my last trip to Caesars, I did $28,210 coin-in on slots. I had a net loss of $3,371. That's 12%. I had a $1,600 handpay. Take away that one spin (out of 5,642), and my loss is $4,971, or 17.6%

    Nobody's doing $20,000 - $30,000 coin in on a $2,000 bankroll with any regularity.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
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  9. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Look at it another way.
    Spin for $10. At 90%, you win $9, they keep $1.

    Repeat 8-9 times and you are just about broke with less than a dollar. (There is some more serious math in play, but I just kept it simple)

    Each time you play, they take 10% of your money. Of course, in the real world, you win sometimes, they win other times. But, you get the point.
     
  10. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    On slots, no...but on video poker, I could hit 30k coin-in with $2000 every time...
    I've hit 10k with $1000 (actually never got below $500) a few times now.
     
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  11. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    BayouBengal already nailed it.
    You simply over bet your bankroll!
    With 2000, I would bet $1 total per spin or even less.
    If you do max bet, unless you are very lucky, you will broke sooner than you ecpect.
     
  12. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    This is a great example Chuck. One, ONE spin, on your last trip changed your return results by 5.6%. That's significant. And most slots/VP generally works this way. You lose a lot a buck or two or three at a time, but then you make these fairly rare, sizable $500-$1000+ hits that make up for a lot of those losses, and if you are lucky enough to get an above average number of these bigger hits, you're more likely to come home a winner. But if you run below average, you're losing your ass. :(
     
  13. Geogran

    Geogran OTD Tea Sipper

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    And a whole lot of other stuff :cry:
     
  14. flyguyfl

    flyguyfl Low-Roller

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    Tha
    That is super good considering most casinos only give you half the points on VP that you would make on slots
     
  15. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    This seems to give me a good explanation of how a possible $30000 coin-in to loss ratio could work. Seems like a more realistic number - with the 12% or 17.6% results. The actual net loss of about $3400 and/or $5000 (w/o handpay) makes more sense with that coin-in number. I also agree with Tring, in that some people simply report their wins. I was surprised that a bankroll of $2000 could result in Platinum card $30000 coin-in trips. Seemed like something is missing.

    I'm relatively new to slots and really new to video poker, so the coin-in results they post on mLife website were interesting. I discovered that my last two trips featured a 72% and 75% return - pretty ugly numbers. That's what happens when no quads at DBB and no jackpot wins above $200.

    The comments about bankroll being insufficient for the coin-in numbers quoted also makes a lot of sense - the numbers from Chuck2009x example proves that at least $5000 - $7500 seems more reasonable.

    I think I'll keep my slot play/VP play to a minimum and just stick with more table game play again!
     
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  16. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    My first 10 trips or so, my loss on slots was always within a few % points of 20%. Then I was able to greatly increase my coin-in and the results have been much better. I've only had one trip where I was actually + on slots, but my losses have been cut down to anywhere from 5% to the low-teens, I've been hitting more handpays, which is lucky but also a function of more coin in.
     
  17. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    The thing about it, I understand the buy-in amounts at a table game (or even a poker game), when compared to average bet amounts. I rarely stepped up to a table without a sufficient buy-in to ride out the bad streaks (now pressing bets, that is another manner altogether).

    I think I have to take the same approach to playing slots - and hopefully ride out my very bad luck streaks (even if it is so frustrating when you spin 30 times and get nothing!!).

    Then comes video poker, where I found that my bankroll stays a bit more intact.
     
  18. Multifarious5

    Multifarious5 High-Roller

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    Roger that absolutely. Make sure your betting gives your bankroll enough time to weather the bad plays. Also, depends on low or high-variable machines. Progressive jackpots, like mega millions can eat through money like termites. Low-variable machines don't give huge "jackpots," but award a lot more little pays, which really extends bankroll, and can really build up great coin-in. (But not the super low-variable machines for me, those wins are so small you nickel and dime yourself to death...a slow bleedout.)

    Depends on what your target it, possibly getting that huge score, or maximizing your coin-in to actual bankroll. Either way, making sure you're betting the right amount for your bank role is spot-on advice from Bayou!

    Chuck also nailed it: "Nobody's doing $20,000 - $30,000 coin in on a $2,000 bankroll with any regularity." I am a low-to-mid variable fan and do pretty well on coin-in, but to do that well 20-30k for 2k, it's unusual to say the best. Maybe unless you're Geogran!

    Good luck, and I hope your next trip is a blast!
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
    Sooooo far away still...
    Cosmo, always our favorite part of our trip!
  19. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Yes, you have to take volatility into account when playing slots also. If you're playing a high-vol slot like Buffalo or Cleo II or Davinci, you need a lot of firepower to ride out the dry spells. I play the high-vol games early in a trip when my bankroll is at its max.
     
  20. Multifarious5

    Multifarious5 High-Roller

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    Oops, meant high/low volatility, not high/low variable. As always Chuck, you were a total class act on how you gently explained what I meant to say...thank you!

    Also just saw your quip on "Dirty Castle" in the Excalibur string, totally cracked me up. Ok. Off to bed, I'm not on vacation yet..though I'm close! :woohoo:
     
    Sooooo far away still...
    Cosmo, always our favorite part of our trip!