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Table Games Bad Experience (because of the casino) with Ultimate Texas Holdem

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by GeorgeJ., May 3, 2015.

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  1. GeorgeJ.

    GeorgeJ. Low-Roller

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    Back before there was a Progressive bet with Ultimate Texas Holdem I used to play just the Trips bet at one of the casinos in Vegas. I did that for 2 years at that casino until one of the dealers decided that I was not allowed to do that and made a big stink about it & got a pit boss involved. So I never returned there.

    For the past 6 months I have been doing the same at another casino in Vegas (unnamed until I am able to speak to one of the bigwigs in gaming there). I asked the pitboss there 6 months ago if I could just play the Trips and Progressive bets. He said sure, no problem, so I did.

    Next time I came in it was on his day off. The person working his station that day had to check on that because he didn't know. It took about an hour to get confirmation from higher ups. They said sure, go ahead. So I played just those two spots that afternoon and the following day. When a new dealer hit the table, I'd have to get the pit boss to tell him it was OK.

    So this week, pit boss #1 was off again, but pit boss #2 was there and told the dealer it's OK. I bought in for $100 and played all afternoon and left with $250 after getting quads in one hand.

    I came back the following afternoon and played it again. After about 20 hands another pit boss came over to me and said that "we discussed this yesterday and you're not allowed to do this anymore". My response was "after today?" "No, this is your last hand." She had been watching the table since I started playing, and it took her 20 hands to remember that they decided yesterday I couldn't play that way anymore?

    Yes, it is not universally allowed at all casinos in Vegas, but my feeling was it was like bumping up the minimum bet at a table and not grandfathering in the current players at the old minimum for as long as they cared to stay...Customer Service is a ZERO at this place...

    The only thing I can think of is that someone decided that the house edge was less if you didn't play all of the bets....but if that's true, why did they let me play the day before and sit down again the second day and play...what's odd was that the pit boss who came over had been watching me play since I sat down...she didn't remember the previous day's decision until I had played 20 hands?

    I will name the place if they refuse to talk to me or don't come up with a decent answer..
     
  2. Turtleman

    Turtleman VIP Whale

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    Thanks for sharing, though I learned a very long time ago that what's permitted and what isn't often depends on whom you ask and can change from day to day, shift to shift, and even pit to pit. I've even seen pit bosses ask dealers how to handle certain rules and payoffs. It's just part of the game.

    I'll likely be playing Ult. Texas Hold'em later this week, but never even thought of trying to play just trips. Good luck getting a satisfactory reply.
     
  3. ncfatcat

    ncfatcat Low-Roller

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    they're sweating since you hit the quads. Casino's hate winners LOL
     
  4. Piggylane

    Piggylane Well-Known Member

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    I've seen many players ask to do this but never have I seen a table where it was allowed. Not sure what the house advantage would be.
     
  5. AbFab

    AbFab Low-Roller

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    I would think it's a huge house disadvantage, as you literally can win if the flop is three of a kind and up.
     
  6. GeorgeJ.

    GeorgeJ. Low-Roller

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    Right before I bought in on Friday, as I was walking up to the table there were two players at the table and they both got paid for Quads---the flop was X, Jack, Jack, Jack, Jack. Missed that one by stopping at the bathroom first when I got to the casino...
     
  7. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    The Trips and Progressive side bets are big house advantage bets! If i had a casino and all you wanted to do was play those side bets, I would find a chair with the best cushion on it and give you a fresh ash try after every cigarette. With a max payout of 50x on the trips, compared to 500x on the Blind...the casino would be foolish to not let you just play the Trips. I once saw a guy at Bellagio playing $500 a spot. He was down to his last chip, so he put it on the Trips. Bam! He hit quads and made $15k back. Had he played all the spots, the casino would have had to pay an additional $7500 for his other bets.

    Casinos make and change rules constantly. In your case, they probably did get spooked by your quads and monstrous $150 payout. I know one casino, Caesars, that is so scared of the Trips bet, they now cap it at $50...lol...idiots!
     
  8. GeorgeJ.

    GeorgeJ. Low-Roller

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    That's funny....when the original pit boss said sure, you can play just those, his additional comments were "those are sucker bets....why would we not allow you just to play those..."

    At Aliante, I was talking with one of the graveyard shift dealers & she told me I could play Ultimate Texas Holdem there when the table opened later with just the "sucker bets"...when I sat down I asked the dealer to get the day pit boss over before I bought in...her response was no -- "why would I let you have the opportunity to win a lot of money only playing $6 a hand....."
     
  9. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Nope...It's still a 2.5% House Advantage...in fact, you're probably MORE disadvantaged because you're NOT playing the main game (where there is no HA on the "play" bet).
    I've seen it hit & miss with JUST being able to bet "Trips"...it was most likely because you were winning, and OTHERS would just want to play that way (therefore playing CHEAPER than playing all the bets required)
    Trips+Progressive = $6 action
    Regular Game = $16 action (with $21 if they even want to "play")
     
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  10. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I would think that the 'Blind' bet is far-and-away the greatest house advantage.
    Sure - hit something really good & it pays-off very well... but remember: that bet is only paid at all if you have a straight or better...which means that the VAST majority of hands, you will not win anything on that bet.
    However, if you fold, or if you lose - even against a dealer high-card, let alone a straight or better, you still lose your blind bet.
    ... and, unlike the trips bet, you only win the blind bet if you actually beat the dealer! I've lost that bet several times with a full-house - because the dealer's was higher.
    The "trips only" bet does not require beating the dealer.
    It's an interesting way to play... I don't think I would ever do it, though. I've won far too many hands with two-pair or less.
    Of course, I lose plenty of hands too, but those are almost always with a single-bet on play or a fold.
    My wins are almost always 2 or 4 bets on play.

    The house edge is that there are FAR more hands that are under 'straight', then there are at straight or better - the only time the house loses on that bet.
    They win it with any other hand that beats you, or if you fold.

    Edit to add this:
    If we assume that the odds of winning a given hand are equal between the dealer & player (they are), then the house will win your blind bet 50% of the time.
    However for something like 90% of your wins, you do NOT win the blind bet. It is a push.
    HUGE house advantage there.
     
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  11. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    I think I read on one of the blogs that analyze the game, that the Blind bet is something like 18% HA. This is why one should be aggressive with the Play bet.
     
  12. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I am... I essentially play the basic strategy as spelled out on the Wizard's page... & let me tell ya - I've caught so much commentary, from dealers and other players - and 90% of it is negative!

    "You bet 4X on a King-Ten off-suit?!?!?" Are you crazy?"

    You should see the reactions when I 4-play the Q-8!!

    Last trip, I was playing at Golden Gate, and there was another player there who would periodically ask my advice... so, I would tell him what I would do with his hand...often, I had worse hands than he did and I was betting 4x on my play, while he would check his K-9 or A-2.

    The beauty was how often we would both win, but I'd be getting $20 while he was getting $5 or $10. And trust me - I pointed that out to him! :evillaugh
     
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  13. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    I used to get a lot of "what?!", "you're crazy!", and "you're so lucky!" comments. For the past 3 months, I have just been hearing the "I think he's on tilt" comments...lol...that is how bad UTH has been to me lately. My correct play looks like I am on tilt to other players. I need to learn to stand up and walk away after losing a few 4x bets because it is tough to recover from several 4x losses. I hate how much I love the game...lol!

    I try to avoid telling people what they should do...it seems they always lose when I tell them the correct play. Now, I just say something like, "correct strategy is to do [this], but just go with your gut."
     
  14. sigsev

    sigsev Low-Roller

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    All UTH Trips paytables on the strip and downtown that I've seen are the 8/7/4 variety for full house, flush, straight. That's a 3.5% HA. If you can find paytables that are 8/6/5 it cuts the HA to 1.9%. I've seen that at Green Valley Ranch.

    The Blind bet is definitely where the house makes it's money at the game.
     
  15. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    Yes...Trips bet on the strip sucks Ogre balls! Southern California...at least Pechanga, Pala, and Harrah's, are all 8/6/5, which makes it much more playable at an equal bet to the ante/blind.
     
  16. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    This why it is so important to make those 4x & 2x 'play' bets when the basic strategy says to - for those hands that win, you need to offset having risked the 'blind' bet (with minimal chance for ever winning it) with the only player-advantage inherent in the game - you're ability to raise your bet 4x ante after seeing your first two cards, or 2x ante after the flop.

    I do have to admit - just like sind - I do so love this game!!
     
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  17. Turtleman

    Turtleman VIP Whale

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    We saw a lady playing just trips at UTH yesterday at Gold Coast. Probably wouldn't have thought a thing of it if not for this thread. We played trips also, but with the ante/blind and $1 bonus. Will check it out at Orleans this afternoon.
     
  18. GeorgeJ.

    GeorgeJ. Low-Roller

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    So Turtleman, did Orleans also allow just playing the Trips bet too?
     
  19. Turtleman

    Turtleman VIP Whale

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    I'm so sorry. We played only one UTH session at the Orleans and walked by many other times, but I can't remember seeing only trips being bet. I just flat forgot to notice or ask. Guess I'll have to go back and look again!
     
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