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Table Games Baccarat Break Down

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by BacPro45, Sep 30, 2013.

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  1. BacPro45

    BacPro45 Tourist

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    Baccarat Break Down - What if's to Best Bet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  2. BacPro45

    BacPro45 Tourist

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    Baccarat Break Down - Playing Partners.

    Baccarat Break Down - Playing Partners.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  3. BacPro45

    BacPro45 Tourist

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    Baccarat Break Down - The Scoreboard.

    Baccarat Break Down - The Scoreboard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  4. BacPro45

    BacPro45 Tourist

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    Baccarat Break Down - System Requirements

    Baccarat Break Down - System Requirements
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  5. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Casinos love this play. When you bet both sides you give them even more of an advantage with the vig. There's absolutely no advantage for the players to do this.
     
  6. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I only performed a very quick an analysis of your betting strategy here, but I don't see it. Seems like the partner betting opposite you is nothing but a bad play. One of you is guaranteed to lose money on every hand (excluding ties, which do not appear to be part of your system). The only way to make money, is for the person pressing his or her bets to get on a streak. And even then, the other partner betting is reducing the overall team win by losing (albeit smaller) while the other partner hits a good streak. You can hit a good streak whether you have a partner betting or not. The only advantage I see to this system is that you're hedging your losses somewhat when there is no long streak. Is that the objective?
     
  7. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    yeah it's basically limiting your losses, but also limiting your wins without forcing you to make any decisions. with any kind of strict system, you take the choices out of the equation. most players lose way more than the stated HA because of bad choices. by taking choices out of the equation, you eliminate that issue.

    but any time you're betting both sides, you're turning the 5% commission into a hell of a lot more. it gets so high that it makes it almost impossible to overcome unless you get really lucky. so the casino loves it because you're not going to hit them for much when you do win and most of the time all your profit is going to go to them for the vig. perfect for them.
     
  8. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    How would you be hedging your losses? Isn't he saying the winning side presses while the other side will just bet one unit? So you would always just be betting the differential, and it would be the same thing if one player just bet that differential alone.
     
  9. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Good point. I guess you are hedging your loss on the first hand, before the pressing begins. That's the only hand where I see any advantage of using this partner system
     
  10. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Right, on the first hand they would both be betting 1 unit so it'll either be a wash or a slight loss from commission. But the only point of that hand is to tell you where to press for the next hand and then it's no different than a single player betting the difference. Which you can look at as the "first" hand for the solo player anyway.

    I guess one advantage is in comps. The cost in terms of EV is the same but you lower the volatility which some people may consider to be a good thing.
     
  11. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    definitely not. the pit are not idiots and they will know in 5 minutes you are playing together and discount your rating as the difference between your bets. the only chance you have is maybe being able to get away with this for a very short time at a very busy mini-table.
     
  12. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Good point, in practical terms I guess it wouldn't even work for comps.

    And I messed up, this is worse than just betting the differential because of the asymmetrical payoffs in baccarat from the commissions. You end up worse off than the solo player anytime banker wins.
     
  13. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    exactly, the commission totally chews into your profits to the point that any profits you may make are just going back to the casino in the commission. unless you're very lucky and run into some great shoes, but then you're also limiting how much you're winning in those cases.
     
  14. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    That is what I was thinking originally, but as stated, haven't done a thorough analysis on the proposed system yet. Starting to think I have better ways to spend my time
     
  15. DMSCR

    DMSCR High-Roller

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    Only way that I know of where partnering will work in bac is when match coupons are involved. Foxwoods banned that partnering thing around 2010/2011 when that method was actually producing +EV in every hand played netting about $10 in profit per wager.
     
  16. BacPro45

    BacPro45 Tourist

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    Never worry about the 5% commission. It is peanuts. What you need to worry about is cutting down on the Pino Grigio White wine at 15.50 plus tip for two glasses here at Fallsview Casino, Niagara Falls.
     
  17. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Progressions only change the distribution of your wins and losses per session; they can't help you win more. Your expected loss is always: average bet * edge * hands per hour. Progressions will increase your average bet, of course.

    Negative progressions (up when you lose) will tend to create lots of small winning sessions and a few large losing sessions. Positive progressions (up when you win) will do the opposite, create lots of small losing sessions and a few large winners.

    At blackjack, of course, progressing up when the count goes up is the 'right' kind of progression :Þ When I first learned to count, I liked to tell friends "at least I'm raising my bet for a good reason."

    In basically every game, the fact that you lost or won the last hand has no correlation with the expected results of the next hand. There is a TINY correlation in blackjack that after a win you tend to lose the next and visa versa, but this factor is so tiny that it can't be exploited.
     
  18. 4Eyes

    4Eyes Low-Roller

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    I'm curious. How does one become a baccarat "pro" when every hand has a negative expectation? :rolleyes2:
     
  19. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Same way you become a coin flip pro...luck
     
  20. gArNaBby

    gArNaBby Tourist

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    I guess that's the reason for the casinos to put in different types of games. Every one is able to put down the others' games to the point of being a big winner on paper.
     
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