1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Atlantic City Strives to Rise as Casinos Fall (NY Times)

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Hotels & Casinos' started by Kickin, Jul 15, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    Front page New York Times article on Atlantic City. I've only had time to skim it so far but will read it later.

    http://nyti.ms/1np1cou
     
  2. dannyocean

    dannyocean High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Houston
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    Very interesting read. I'm intrigued by the bits regarding gambling revenue dropping ... it's the same trend we see in Vegas, but the impression I get is that they don't know what to do about it.
     
  3. lithium78

    lithium78 High-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    AC's casinos never made the investment in themselves to become true vacation destinations and they charge way too much for hotel rooms on weekends (especially in the summer.) Why would someone pay $300-400 a night for a hotel room in AC when they can get a nicer room for much cheaper in Vegas, even factoring in the cost of airfare. I like to play but my wife doesn't and it's a hard sell to get her to come with me to AC, because they just don't offer the entertainment value of Vegas. The only permanent show in AC is "Legends in Concert" which you can already see in Vegas (and it's just an impersonator show). AC is basically what Vegas was thirty years ago, before they realized that they needed to change with the times.
     
  4. dianenjnj

    dianenjnj Tourist

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    41
    many mistakes were made...the surrounding area is dangerous, this was never addressed and improved. casinos are popping up everywhere these days...no need to travel to a dangerous and expensive place like ac to gamble. this new gambling on line in nj is the final nail in the coffin...don't know how this was ever approved and by whom...we never heard anything about this online gambling until it was done!
     
  5. ultima-forsan

    ultima-forsan Tourist

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Montreal, QC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    3
    I wish I could upvote or like this comment.
     
  6. NYNJMINC

    NYNJMINC Tourist

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    CHARLOTTE, NC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    Just came back from AC. It was packed over the weekend. I stayed at Caesars on a junket but I gambled at Ballys, Showboat & Harrahs.
     
  7. hammie

    hammie VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Messages:
    2,380
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    Agree with the comments regarding lack of entertainment, most acts are booked for the weekend. House of Blues was the exception, it was a smaller venue and booked some acts midweek. Some of the casinos have nightclubs so that is drawing the younger crowd on weekends.

    Even though rates are $400 on weekends, the midweek rates are incredibly cheap. Last week I checked on Hotels Tonight and could have stayed at Harrah's for $34. I couldn't stay in the lowest fleabag motel anywhere on the Jersey Shore for this rate. We are low rollers and always get free midweek room offers from CET and Tropicana.

    When the casino law was written over 35 years ago, the NJ legislature didn't want to have a bunch of small gambling rooms, so they required each licensee to have a minimum of 500 hotel rooms. They wanted to make this a destination and encourage overnight stays. They also wanted to limit licenses to no more than 3 (I am going off memory, but this was later amended when CET was created through mergers). The problem is that all these casinos knew about competition from other states and didn't do anything about it. First came the native casinos in Connecticut which siphoned off customers in the northern NYC areas, then Delaware, then slots in Pennsylvania which shortly added table games, then Maryland. Meanwhile these guys in AC sat on their hands milking the cash cow and not innovating or changing the business plan. At least Tropicana developed The Quarter with restaurants and retail. Caesars bought an old amusement pier and created the Pier Shops, more retail.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  8. ultima-forsan

    ultima-forsan Tourist

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Montreal, QC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    3
    I can only go to AC during the weekends because I work during the week and I won't spend my vacation days to go to AC! If I go there, it will be in a 3 days weekend. The bad thing is, I won't spend 300$/night on a room that is as nice as the flamingo or the Quad.

    Due to that, I never go to AC and I am sure that a lot of people thinks like me.
     
  9. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    1,977
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    If the hotels are at least 80% capacity for $300 on a Saturday night, how is that overpriced? I mean, I don't pay it, but lots of other folks do. Legends in Concert is no more. The Legends in Concert showroom is in the Claridge Hotel and when Bally's sold the Claridge, they lost the show room. Some other show is in the showroom now. Since Bally's used to comp us tickets to Legends, we have a hard time paying for tickets for the new show.

    AC and Vegas are very different from a historical perspective. AC was always a popular summer destination and is close to millions of people. Vegas is in the middle of a desert far from population. Vegas needed to attract people so they offered cheap hotel rooms and cheap food specials in order to bring people in. AC just offered gambling.
     
  10. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    15,202
    Location:
    Central California Coast
    People from the east coast FLOCK to Vegas. The phenomenon does not reverse. There's a reason for that.
     
  11. chitownjohn

    chitownjohn High-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    659
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    I'm closer to AC than Vegas but I have never had a desire to go to AC, it's not a destination for me.

    There's too much competition from surrounding states, I get the feeling that AC will not be able to reinvent itself like Vegas did and it will die a slow death.

    On a side note my former dentist was big fan of AC and went there frequently. I always knew when he had a losing trip because all of a sudden I needed some expensive dental work.:nono:
     
  12. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,294
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    Most of this stuff has been hashed out over and over about AC's problems. I'm really just waiting to see what happens next . Maybe some new investors/operators will help.. The new owners of the Golden Nugget have fixed the place up from when Trump had it and seem to get the idea that weekdays you need to give something to the average seniors to get them in the door. Most of the more affluent seniors I know seem to flock to Borgata. and a few to Revel.
     
  13. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,081
    Location:
    Houston by way of Philadelphia
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    When I lived in PA as a kid I was obviously too young to gamble. When I moved back in 2003 I wasn't bitten by gambling bug yet. However when I go home now to visit I have three casinos within decent driving distance (Harrah's, Parx and Valley Forge).

    Why would I, or anyone in my area, go down to AC?
     
  14. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    4,907
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    Used to live in NJ and never been to AC and no desire.
    With Vegas there just as much to do on the strip as off the strip.
     
  15. Gomar

    Gomar Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2012
    Messages:
    229
    Location:
    NYC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    3
    That pic of the laundry hanging just blocks from Revel is pretty funny, and indicative of what AC really is. Just as Hollywood in LA it is glitz and glamour for a few blocks, but just 3 blocks south full of homeless, druggies, hoes, etc.

    With Showboat and Revel gone, the laundry will be hanging on their former spot real soon; along with the former employees.

    Ifcourse, I now do my gambling in Resorts(Queens), and find NY Numbers, QD, and a nice $20 scratcher mostly does it for me.
     
  16. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    I was actually intrigued by the fact that gaming revenue was such a large percentage of total revenue, in stark contrast to Vegas. Their revenue split makes them look more like a local casino which I think is part of the problem. If they truly embraced the resort destination model they should have a lot of room to grow non-gaming revenue. Unfortunately they seem incompetent in trying to execute that.

    For instance the article mentions how AC operators are bringing in celebrity chef restaurants. Really? Like what? I was just down there last weekend and saw tons of huge signs for a Guy Fieri restaurant opening at Ballys. You'd need to have an impressive amount of naivety to open a Guy Fieri as your big celebrity restaurant, particularly in this region. He got what was probably the most unwelcome reception of any restaurant in NY when he opened in Times Square, and that is saying something given the types of restaurants in Times Square. Granted the AC and NY markets aren't equal, but they overlap and branding yourselves with Guy Fieri when he has such a bad reputation out here makes no sense.

    I think its important to remember that just the small area of South Jersey alone has a population almost equal to all of Nevada. And that encompasses just a portion of the local AC market. Vegas is king and is able to attract visitors from everywhere which it needs to do since its located in the middle of nowhere. AC is in the middle of one of the most populated markets in the country, and definitely located in the biggest market of any casino destination in the country. And the area isn't served by any large resort destination. People will eat at Guy Fieri when they're already in AC, but its not going to draw people from south Jersey on a Thursday night looking to go out for dinner. Its not like south Jersey has a great dining scene, its full of chains like Ruby Tuesday's and Chilis. So why open up the equivalent of that in AC?
     
  17. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,294
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    South Jersey has a population almost equal to Nevada? Where's all these people hiding? Theres over a million in LV metro area alone. My definition of South Jersey may differ from yours also ,mine is that South Jersey starts below Ocean County. I agree about the big name chef restaurants ,not my style. For over 20 some years people have talked about how gambling was going to lift up all the residents of AC who were left behind when the middle class left in the 60's.and basically failed overall. I could never figure out how a small city of 40,000 people couldnt prosper with the amount of real estate tax ratables and local room taxes the casinos represented. I see the new HS and some new town homes but why is the city itself always crying that they need more money??
     
  18. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    I just googled "population of South Jersey" and first link with a number I saw was this article from NJ.com: http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2012/04/census_finds_south_jersey_grow.html

    It shows the south Jersey population as 2.4mm (vs total Nevada of 2.7mm). Considering NJ itself is close to 9mm and the most densely populated state in the country it isn't hard to believe.
     
  19. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,294
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    That guy's article includes Ocean County's 500k residents. I always believed that South Jersey starts just below OC. He's probably right,I guess, but If you go to Lakewood,Toms River and Brick it just doesnt seem like South Jersey.But whatever ,starting 50 miles north of me there's a shitload of people ,but for some people I know it's much closer to go to Bethlehem PA.
     
  20. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    15,202
    Location:
    Central California Coast
    The bulk of So Cal's population is 4 hours or more away from Vegas. Yet So Cal-ers comprise 25 percent of Vegas' 40+ million visitors, and nearly 60 percent of all visitors arrive via road. Given bus service as it is, charters, that essentially means 25 million people are coming in from VERY far away in their own vehicles.

    AC is effectively a borough and Philly is even closer.

    It's amazing AC has made it this far failing to draw from that many people.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.