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Atlantic City Golden Nugget sues gamblers and card manufactures for unshuffled cards

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Hotels & Casinos' started by JWBlue, Aug 20, 2012.

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  1. JWBlue

    JWBlue VIP Whale

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    At a mini bacarat table, the new deck of cards used were supposed to be delivered by the card manufacturer already shuffled. They were not. The players noticed the cards were in a particular order and used this to their advantage.

    The players walked away with $1.5 million.


     
  2. travelfiend

    travelfiend High-Roller

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    These kind of stories just crack me up. Sorry, but I just have no sympathy for the casino here. They spend thousands of dollars concerning security issues and then they are going to trust an outside company to "shuffle" cards for them. Got to be one of the craziest things I have heard.

    Almost as dumb as those folks that think they can do armed robberies or just grab chips and run at a Casino.

    Just my 2 cents worth!
     
  3. nubia11

    nubia11 Low-Roller

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    I don't see how Golden Nugget has a case against the customers who won. That just seems ludicrous. Sure, go after the card manufacturer if that is part of the service contract, sue them for the losses but, suing the gamblers, come on!!
     
  4. Reed

    Reed High-Roller

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    Doesn't the casino have the right to shut a table down at anytime?

    Does anyone think they can actually get away with not paying the customers?

    If all the customers playing figured out that the cards had not been shuffled and bet accordingly, then why did none of the casino workers (floor persons, managers, supervisors, or surveillance) also figure the error out?

    Just odd...
     
  5. Sniff009

    Sniff009 Low-Roller

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    Exactly. You think the dealer would figure it out and ask a supervisor whats going on, which would clear the dealer of any wrong doing. The gamblers did the right thing and took full advantage of the patterns.
     
  6. pass line man

    pass line man Low-Roller

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    I remember the first time I saw those pre-shuffled cards. I played the first shoe of baccarat at Parx Casino. They just opened the box, and handed me the cut card.....I was shocked. I turned to the gaming inspectors behind me and said........"That's a bad idea...one day this will bite someone in the ass." They said, it saves time, more hands for the casino.

    Here is the defense for the gamblers.

    Q. Mr Gaming Executive, how many different possible combinations exist for an eight deck shoe to be shuffled.

    A. Millions and millions.

    Q. If a random shuffle truly exists, is it not true that one of those random combinatons is the sequential order of the cards.

    A. Theoretically yes, but highly unlikely.

    Q. But still possible

    A. Yes.

    Q. Does your casino provide scorecards, monitors, and pens to baccarat players to aid them in tracking the results of a shoe

    A. Yes, but patterns never occur, it is purely Asian superstition

    Q. Apparently not..............the defense rests.
     
  7. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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    Let me get this straight ---
    they would bet Player or Banker because
    they knew exactly what cards would be in the dealers
    hand.....and there own hands.
    .
    You guys are right --
    the players figured it out + no casino employees
    could ?.........hmmm ?
     
  8. y2mulder

    y2mulder Low-Roller

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    10 year pit critter sez.......

    NOTHING. I am too busy rolling on the floor in tears, laughing.

    What kind of insane procedure allows for some monkey to pull 8 decks out of a UPS package, and putting them on a high stakes Bacc game without even looking at them first??? How hard is it to just put 8 brand new decks on a game and shuffle them up?? Who thought up THAT SHIT??

    I hope New Jersey triples the amount they lost in a fine that will make the Gambling gods bow down in approval. And not only the will the judge order the casino to cash in their chips, I hope he tags 40% interest on the chips for wasting his time. There is ZERO upside to dragging this through the courts, and the Nugget is D-E-A-D here.

    Gotta follow this story. It's too funny.
     
  9. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    ...citing state gambling regulations requiring all casino games to offer fair odds - to both sides...

    That's the casino's side. And that's why we have judges in this country. They'll get it sorted out.
     
  10. hammie

    hammie VIP Whale

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    If this is the casino's defense, what are the odds of opening a pre shuffled box of cards and finding them unshuffled? With all that personnel standing around for 41 hands, floor supervisors, security, and they couldn't figure it out?

    Don't forget the State of NJ gets a cut of each casino's "win" each month, so it will be interesting to see if justice is truly blind.
     
  11. pass line man

    pass line man Low-Roller

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    The Taj got fined the exact amount of the lost gaming revenue, I expect the GN to be the same, 8.25% of 2.5mil as a fine. The state will lose nothing.
     
  12. y2mulder

    y2mulder Low-Roller

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    That defense goes right out the window the moment they neglected to ensure game integrity by not even looking at the cards you were putting in play. How were the players even ensured that all the cards were even there??

    This (The court case) bombs on so many levels, its hilarious.
     
  13. pass line man

    pass line man Low-Roller

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    Gemaco, who provides the cards, places an reciept in the box which certifies the shuffle and number of cards.......and the customers are supposed to trust that. But the NJCCC is a shell of its former self and NJ is now much more "self-regulated"
     
  14. runningonthehub

    runningonthehub Low-Roller

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    The gamblers did not cheat anybody. The just saw a weakness in the game and took advantage of it. The casino had its own people watching the action and they could not see anything wrong. That's not the gamblers fault.

    The casino might be better off by dropping the matter. Nothing worse than bad publicity for a casino.

    I bet the gamblers get to keep their winnings.
     
  15. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    Look, I'm not saying that it's a slam dunk case for the defense. It simply seems like there are a bunch of posts (from gamblers, not NJ lawyers) who have already decided the case. I'm simply saying the case is not decided yet.
     
  16. y2mulder

    y2mulder Low-Roller

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    I just love the fact that a bunch of gamblers figured out a sequence of cards that apparently no Supervisor, Pit Manager, Shift Manager, and ALL of surveillance couldnt figure out as it was happening. Reminds me of the movie "21"......when you have all the best technology and bean counters in the business, you still cant replace a good old fashioned "hound dog" in the pit watching things.

    Call me nuts, but if 10 guys are slamming my table and hitting EVERY hand for an hour, then 8 new decks are hitting that table mid-shoe and we are starting over while the eyes upstairs look at tapes. They absolutely have that right.
     
  17. ardee

    ardee VIP Whale

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    Odds are the Nugget will lose more in lawyer costs and people boycotting their sorry butts than they would have paid out to the observant gamblers. That goes triple if the story told by Hua Shi pans out.

    Idiots.
     
  18. Username

    Username VIP Whale

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    The players are behind the eight ball in this case just because the casino can afford MUCH better lawyers.
     
  19. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    In December, the Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort used unshuffled mini-baccarat cards for 3 1/2 hours before realizing something was wrong. That episode led to a $91,000 fine against the casino, which fired nine people it said were involved.

    Why would the Taj get fined $91,000? Who fined them? The NJGC? For what? Not offering a random game?

    This story reminds me of the scene in Casino when Ace fires the slot manager. "Either you were in on it, or you're incompetant. Which one is it? Either way, you're fired!"
     
  20. pass line man

    pass line man Low-Roller

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    They got fined for violating procedures in shuffling cards. The Taj doesnt use the "preshuffled" The had eight new decks that they just forgot to shuffle. The entire shift in the high limit got fired. (more than 9 heads rolled, only 9 reported) The Taj lost 1.2 mil they should not have lost, so the state lost $91000 in tax revenue, hence the amount of the fine. It could have been larger but the Taj entered into a consent decree. It was the the NJDGE that fined them.
     
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