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Article about a shift from South Strip to North

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by Chicken Dinner, May 16, 2015.

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  1. Chicken Dinner

    Chicken Dinner Low-Roller

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  2. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    Don't forget crown resorts bought the old frontier site. Not sure when the construction will start, but once completed, the North end of the strip will be awesome.
     
  3. TheCooler

    TheCooler Professional Gambler and the Best Football Handica

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    From the article, "Meanwhile, some of the casinos on the south side slowly deteriorated; now if you have a lot of money to spend in Las Vegas, you are more than likely going to stay at the Bellagio or north."

    I don't agree with this at all. Aria, Cosmo, Mansion...
     
  4. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    Interesting comparison but the chart is somewhat misleading.
    MGMs top two resorts,Bellagio and Aria are excluded but the aging Luxor and Excalibur are in.
    If Flamingo Blvd. is the dividing line between N and S then Cosmo should be in the mix.
    The new arena with the Monte Carlo renovations(rebranding) will also help MGM.

    More competition helps the customers so keep building.
     
  5. Packer

    Packer VIP Whale

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  6. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    The north side has always been my preferred section of the strip because it felt much closer and intimate than the south strip. Being able to bounce between everything from Bellagio to TI on the west side and Wynn to Bill's on the east side was so convenient.

    I wonder how CET is going to come out of this? They were at somewhat of a disadvantage IMO even before the bankruptcy because of the run down feeling of most properties...now they are fighting the bankruptcy and MGM and others are pretty strong right now. Can they rebound?
     
  7. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    The other thing they omit--Premium hotels derive most of their revenue from in house guests, not walk ins. High spending customers decide where to stay before they arrive, and spend most of their time and money where they stay. They don't wander up and down the strip wondering where to go and what to do. Bellagio, Aria, and MGM will be just fine--as will places like Excalibur which have a well defined target market who will still go there. I'd worry about Luxor, NYNY, and Monte Carlo, which are badly positioned in the marketplace (and geographically if the article is correct.). Mandalay Bay has always been in a bad location and is not really considered top end anymore. However, it is big enough, nice enough, and appealing enough to a wide range of people to make it a destination type property in addition to its convention business.
     
  8. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    The advantage CET has is the center strip location of its properties and the huge database from their nationwide network of casinos. Their huge disadvantage is the dilapidated condition of most of the hotels. The very worst one has apparently been dealt with, but there are still 2 big clunkers and three marginal properties on their side of the street. The newer towers at CP, Nobu, and Cromwell are steps in the right direction but the overall feeling of luxury is just not there in Caesars empire. I am still trying to figure out if they want to be competitive at the top end or would rather just focus on the low end slot players from the hinterlands who are happy to be in LV on a comp and won't complain about what they find when they get there.
     
  9. waverunner

    waverunner BBHMM

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    Well, to me, Wynn/Encore is not the North end of the Strip, it's still mid Strip. That's where a majority of foot traffic is......it starts at Fashion Show Mall/Wynn, and then proceeds South down to Mandalay Bay. Foot traffic doesn't necessarily mean walking on Las Vegas Blvd, a majority of people walk from Excalibur to Luxor/MB inside the connecting properties and/or Trams.

    Currently the "North" Strip is SLS, which is struggling, the Riviera, which is gone, and Circus Circus. What the article should have said is the North Strip, which has been avoided like the plague these last few years, may make a comeback in a couple of years with Resorts World replacing Stardust, a new property in place of the Frontier, a new Convention Center extension to the Blvd, etc.

    Foot traffic is the main source of income, whether it be Shopping, Gambling, Shows, Restaurants,etc. There is still no foot traffic North of Wynn/FSM. Once people walk up to FSM/Wynn, do their business, they then head south.

    The future is bright for the North Strip, but they still have a ways to go until there are actually buildings you can walk in to.
     
  10. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    All fantastic points. Their location is key (even if it is a chore to get into and get around Caesar's). But location can only carry them so far if the properties are dumps. I have stayed at Ballys twice and their remodel of the south tower was needed. But even with that, and the bazaar retail shops (anyone heard how their doing?), the casino needs a freshening up. Couple that with the slashing of the VP tables and the 6:5 blackjack - what draws people there? CET has tightened up on the comps so they're no longer packing the house with consistent, albeit, smaller bankroll players. So what is the draw for Harrah's, Flamingo and Ballys? If I were a new Vegas visitor what would I see there that would draw me to one of those properties?

    And how much cash can they spend, or get their hands on, to refurb the places while dealing with the bankruptcy?
     
  11. waverunner

    waverunner BBHMM

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    What draws people there? It's called low rates for low rollers like me. People who don't care what the thread count is.
    Harrah's, Flamingo, and Bally's offers you to stay in hotels that also gives you a choice on what rooms you prefer to stay in the center of the Strip.
    Whether it be GO rooms or Fab rooms, Jubilee rooms or Indigo rooms, it's still Vegas, in the middle of the Strip, it's still Vegas.

    You may call them dumps, but other people call them inexpensive rooms in a city that has gotten way out of hand. Some people have decided to stay in cheaper rooms yet still have the luxury of spending their money on far more important things in Vegas that is more beneficial to them in the long run.

    Once i go down the elevator from my dumpy room and head out to the casino........no one cares which room you're staying at. I may be a low roller, but i'm a high roller as far as my ADT score and Caesars. I have more money in my wallet to lose because i have decided to stay in a dumpy room.

    I'm staying 6 nights at Bally's in a couple of weeks for practically nothing including resort fees, practically nothing.
    Yet, as soon as i leave my dumpy room and hit the casinos and frolic in the presence of being in Vegas, no one else cares. I'm never embarrassed on where i stay, whether it be Caesars Palace or Imperial Palace.

    Harrah's, Flamingo, and Bally's may be dumps compared to other Hotels on the Strip, but i prefer to use my money wisely. It's called money management, in the casino and out of the casino. And i'm sure many other people prefer that as well.

    Never judge a book by it's cover.........because inside that book lie many things, like coupons ........LOL.
     
  12. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Anything that increases hotel room inventory is good for customers.

    As for the overall premise of that article, I had to laugh. The guy who wrote it is long WYNN, so probably getting crushed lately.

    He had a table of EBITDA numbers that showed Venetian/Palazzo and WynnCore beating out all of the MGM properties, conveniently ignoring the fact that V/P and WynnCore each consist of two hotels/casinos.

    Motley Fool is full of articles like that. It's pretty useless.
     
  13. pressitagain

    pressitagain Low-Roller

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    The future of Vegas is such an interesting subject.

    Resorts World opening up on the north strip, hurts all of the casinos from the gambling aspect. Anything new attracts every demographic from high rollers, low rollers and the family vacationers. There are only so many gambling dollars to go around. To say which one loses the most, would be highly speculative.

    MGM will lose some of it's family vacationers to Resorts World. It affects CET, V/P and Wynn, the least from this aspect. The bigger winners are Freemont, Circus Circus and the Stratoshpere. Curiosity from the families should draw them to those places.

    MGM is countering everything by renovating their hotels and building the new arena. They will push extremely hard to fill it up with some sort of pro team. They will probably end up overpaying for any pro team that comes in.
    When (not if) that happens. Wynn becomes the biggest loser. CET should lose some of it's revenue as well. MGM will do anything to lock in visiting teams. Celebrities that come will be enticed to stay at MGM hotels. Star seekers follow suit. All those athletes that used to stay at Wynn start shifting. MGM already has the early 20s locked up, with the pools and concerts.

    CET willl always get the slot players. They will get the first time visitors. They have the historical aspect like Freemont. If they don't start improving their properties, my version has them eventually being bought out by MGM or Wynn. They can only go so long before the reputation of their properties catches up with them. They will be forced to sell.

    If MGM doesn't secure a team, all bets are off and the north wins. If MGM gets the franchise, the south will prevail.

    As a low to mid roller, I like the MGM comps. Those will surely dry up if the south wins. I don't know who to root for????
     
  14. Breeze147

    Breeze147 Button Man

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    I don't care what they do, I'm still taking my business to Fremont.
     
  15. andyg99

    andyg99 Low-Roller

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    If folks are moving towards the north end then that means better deals and lower minimums for those of us who usually stay on the south end...
     
    Luxor Trip #12, Vegas Trip #28!
  16. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    I certainly do not pass judgement on people based on where they decide to stay...its all about having a good time within whatever budget works for them. I have stayed at Ballys twice, as I mentioned, and Harrahs twice. I read the reviews and found much of the complaints about the rooms to be unfounded or trivial. But that doesn't change the fact that they need to be remodeled and kept up with the other places on the strip. Both places served me for what I was looking for - a place to lay my head and shower up before heading out to have a great time.

    The difference between you (and mostly all of us here) and who I was referring to is new customers. We know the advantages of the location. We had established play that can lead to completely free stays. Who I am referring to is the group who shows up in Vegas for the first time and stays at Harrahs. They bounce around the strip and see some of the MGM places, Cosmo, V/P, etc...so they see clean and modern resorts with fantastic spas, shows and restaurants and then they return to homebase and it isn't in the same ballpark. In their mind, should they become repeat visitors, what would bring them back to Harrahs?

    I am in no way attacking anyone who chooses to stay there - that is ridiculous for me or anyone to do that. My question is based on what the ownership plans to do to keep up with their neighbors? Because if they do not remodel the places will continue to deteriorate and then what? If CET wasn't in bankruptcy then this would probably not be something I'd think about because I'd just assume they'd remodel and have a freshening up planned for all properties.

    So its not about the seasoned Vegas traveler who has comps to stay there. Nor is it about how people choose to allocate their vacation funds. My commentary was strictly about the parent company and what they plan to do to keep hold of their marketshare in the face of competition.
     
  17. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Waverunner, I'm not sure I follow you on this point. You seem to be the only one who is concerned about the perception of where you stay. I don't think anyone is judging you. I have never once given a second thought about where someone is staying. The only time I even bring that subject up is when a friend is going to Vegas. I ask them where they are staying, not to pass judgment on them, but to find a common subject to talk about. There are certain places I like to stay in vegas and other places I don't like, but I have never thought more or less of someone else because of where they stay
     
  18. Catzilla

    Catzilla Low-Roller

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    I understand exactly what you're saying, waverunner. Of the people I meet up with, I am the lowest roller of the group. I'll be staying at Gold Coast or Monte Carlo, and maybe they'll be at Bellagio or Venetian. But I've never been made to feel that I was less because of it. When I'm slotting with friends, if I'm playing .50 and they're playing 5., it's still just about playing and having fun. What comps I'm able to earn on my style of play lets me go more often and gives me more of a BR. Free flight (on points), free room, free food (thank you myVegas) can be the difference between going or staying home. Being frugal is a good thing! :woohoo:
     
  19. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

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    I don't take much stock in anything Motley Fool says. They use charts to tell their point, but leave out info that will disprove their point. In this case they left out Bellagio, combined two resorts and compared them to single resorts. They also left of the EBITDA of the CET properties on the strip. What is Harrahs EBITDA??? If anything the resurgence of the north strip will help Circus Circus.

    Also what guarantee do we have that Resorts World will work? Who will their main customer be? They will be competing with MGM for family business, but what price will they charge? Will the Water Park be for guests only or will they charge for it and allow non guests in? It seems building a major project without the mega club is doomed. Those mega clubs print money much faster then low stakes gambling ever could.
     
  20. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    These are the more interesting questions. I assume they will tap into their international clientele and go after higher rollers. That means Wynn, Venetian, and MGM are their main competition. As for the mega club, I disagree. The good, popular ones print money. But you can certainly build a mega resort without one and be successful
     
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