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Are these theo calculations correct?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Flowers, Jan 17, 2016.

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  1. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    I've read all of the recent theo/ADT threads and I think I've got it but I have one overarching question and that is for purposes of calculating theo, does the typical casino just use the house advantage percentage or does it use a slightly different percentage to reflect play by the average player?

    In other words, when calculating theo would Wynncore or CET use a HA of .5% on a regular Jacks or Better game or would it use say 1% or more, figuring that the real HA is bigger than .5% (because most players don't play perfectly), rather than roughly .5%, which is based on perfect play? I'm asking because if someone has tens of thousands of dollars of coin in in a given day and certainly over a given trip, that extra one or two percent could make a big difference in the theo and ultimately the comps, so just trying to figure out what my expected comps might be based on getting 30% of theo.

    I also wanted to confirm the basic math in terms of how comps are determined. For example, 5,000 CET Tier Credits earned per day on Video Poker means $50,000 Coin In. Assuming I'm playing basic full pay Jacks or Better (which I know doesn't exist in Vegas), that's roughly $50,000 Coin in x .005 (.5% HA) = $250 x 30% (average casino comp percentage based on theo) = $75 in comps/day. That seems really low, hence my question about whether the casinos use a HA number that more accurately reflects play by the average player verses play by a perfect player.

    Also wanted to confirm that if 50% of a 5,000 Tier Credit day comes from VP and half comes from slots with say a 10% hold, the calculation for comps (assuming 30% of theo) would be:
    $25,000 coin in x .005 (HA for full pay JoB) = $125 + $25,000 coin in x .1 (HA for slots -- 10% hold) = $2500, so $125 + $2500 = $2625 x 30% = $787.50 in comps/day.

    For my upcoming trip I'll still be playing mostly VP, with a bit of slots and maybe some blackjack but my mother, who will be playing on my card, will be playing slots entirely.

    TIA for the comments and any corrections. :peace:

    Edited. Actually, looking at this again if I had earned 2500 Tier Credits a day on slots the coin in on slots would have been $12,500 not $25,000 because you need just $5 coin in for slots for ever 1 Tier Credit but you need $10 coin in for VP per Tier Credit. So if I earned 2500 tier credits in a day on slots with a 10% hold/HA, that would be $12,500 coin in x .1 x .3 (comp as a percentage of theo) = $375 comps/day from slots + $125 comps/day from VP = $500 in comps per day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  2. DRich2

    DRich2 Tourist

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    Your calculations look basically correct. The newer player tracking systems will use the exact theo hold % because it is reported by the machine which paytable you are playing. Older systems tended to use a blended theo hold that was an average of all the games on a multi-game machine.
     
  3. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    Many thanks.
     
  4. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    if you want to play 9/6 JoB at CET, there are 2 machines by Palace Court Slots high limit room that have 9/6 JoB and $10 coin in per TC, but they have a lowest coin as $25, so gotta take that into account
     
  5. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    Thanks! Unless I hit something early on that is probably a tad too rich for me but good to know. I might give it a few spins. ;) This is going to be my biggest trip and most important trip (with mom) ever and with my biggest (though responsible) bankroll so while I am going to try to not chase comps I want to have both fun (always do!) and play as smart as I can and be more informed than ever regarding the process as I will likely have a lot of room charges at both Encore and Caesars on top of my comped Encore Tower room and a great 2 bedroom suite at Caesars. I am so excited my April trip is pretty much planned down to the most minor details (meals, shows, and spa treatments), leaving of course on my itinerary hours every day open to play. ;)
     
  6. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    nice comped rooms, how many TCs do you normally earn per trip to get a 2 bedroom at ceasars comped?
     
  7. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    This is the first time I have gotten this suite though also the first time I think I've ever asked for one in 20 years of going to Vegas. (I once asked for two rooms, one was comped and one was casino rate and the second room was comped at the end.)

    I'll have the Emperors 2 bedroom suite. I wasn't sure if I would be able to get it comped -- I normally just get a regular Augustus Tower room -- but my host said she would comp all five nights so I'm very happy even though I know that may mean very little comps on the back end because of the cost of the suite. A typical heavy play day for me is 3-5k Tier Credits. This last trip I had a 2 or 3 500 TC days but had two days where combined I had about 12k tier credits, BEFORE the bonus. I'd say on average over the course of a five-day stay (9 days in Vegas total) I earn about 10k tier credits before the bonus, so on average 2000 to 2500 tier credits a day. I have had some trips that were less and then I had a trip in November where I stayed at Caesars for just one day and I had a big one day loss with virtually no comps because I didn't eat much and just had about 300 in spa treatments so I assume she is looking at the recent play in November and December/NYE combined.

    My sense is that there are definitely bigger players who would normally get that suite comped for five nights but I guess this is when a host can make the difference. I've laid out to her in detail what I want to do during this trip and why it's so important to me for this trip be as wonderful as possible for my mom and me, with the emphasis on the former (who also gambles).
     
  8. irishdave

    irishdave VIP Whale

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    If you mom doesn't go often, or have a TR account, get a second card on your account and have her play with it. More points!
     
  9. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    Definitely doing that! :thumbsup:
     
  10. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    I may be much lower of a roller than you, I don't think I've ever done a 10k trip without the bonus before, on my next trip im planning on bringing 5k with me and ill be lucky if I make it to 5k TCs being going belly up.

    What bankroll do you bring on a trip to hit that much TCs?
     
  11. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    I played for an hour on 2k promo chips and picked up 30k TCs with TR.

    5k TCs with 5k cash you must be losing every hand.
     
  12. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    I guess I have poor luck? or maybe I play games that they don't favor? (VP), you need 125k coin in for VP to give you 5k TCs
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  13. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    On many VP machines you need just $10 coin in for every tier credit. The typical DSTP machine is such a machine. On some full pay machines -- which I don't play as most are single line, which I find boring -- it's $25 per tier credit but 5k TC is $50k coin in on most VP machines in CET casinos in Vegas.

    With playing lower volatility games, like BP or JB STP or DSTP rather than DDB or TDB DSTP (my favorites), I think $5k can last a long while! My bankroll varies but I tend to budget on average $1500-$1700/day and my typical trip is 9 days. Skill (VP) but also luck helps. My big 8k TC day was the day I won $5k+ (had a couple of smaller w2gs as well) playing Double STP TDB (20,000 quarters) and I played a LONG time (easily 10+ hours during the entire gaming day because I was just in a groove), had a lot churn playing just 3 hands of DSTP (after I won the 5k), etc. The day before was just the opposite -- I did a lot of non-gaming things -- but it all averaged out.
     
  14. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    Wanted to update this post with some news that has made me pretty upset though I recognize that it is a nice "problem" to have. Bottom line is that my host, who IMO has never been particularly competent (I really miss the one I had before he retired) just told me I do NOT qualify for the suite referenced above, and I just learned that after getting a reservation number from her after asking twice over the course of a month and never getting a response. She apologized by saying she couldn't get me in the suite. I could deal with that but for a problem arising every time she has tried to book a flight or room for me. And had I known earlier I could have come up with an alternative arrangement two months ago.

    I sent her an email and said I think we will have to part ways and contrasted my experience at Caesars with my experience at Wynncore from a customer-service perspective. For me it's not as big of a deal but I had been planning for this trip with my mother et al for two months and I can't believe how many times (this one being the most significant), my host has dropped the ball.

    In any event, I wanted to amend my post above so that fellow VMBers aren't under the impression -- that I may have unintentionally created -- that I or other VMBers who play at my level will be able to get such a suite.

    I am blessed I can take vacations, that my 83-year old mother and two nieces will be able to join me, etc. so I will try and not let the very bad service I have received taint my upcoming once-in-a-lifetime Vegas trip with my mother.
     
  15. CaptainJack

    CaptainJack Low-Roller

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    Sounds like a really bad host. It's one thing to promise something that can't be delivered, but to wait 2 months before putting the reservation in (which is what she did) and then realize her mistake. That's just unprofessional. She should at least offer you adjoining rooms in place of the 2 bedroom suite. Since you are a VP player anyway might as well move onto a place that still appreciates VP action.
     
  16. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    Thanks Captain Jack. Yes, that is what she is working on now; two adjoining rooms. I don't want to bolt CET completely as I have earned another flight and a cruise, etc. that I want to use but I will definitely give Cosmo some play this upcoming trip so that in future trips I'll do a quick stay at CET for the benefits but will be staying even more at Wynncore with a dose of Cosmo depending on the offers I receive.
     
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