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Are there any winners in the Penn State Scandal?

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by jerseyguy, Jul 22, 2012.

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  1. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

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    We have strong family ties to the central PA area and over the years have gone to many PS games in Beaver Stadium and Giants Stadium. I guess you can say that the victims can hopefully gain some comfort seeing their abuser and his enabelers being punished finally.Of course there have always been those in the academic community who constantly complain about the money and power given to the sports programs. I was always envious of students who went to big schools and were able to enjoy the spectacle and continue as alums enjoying the tradition.
    Lately all I read is about schools dropping out of conferences,going to ones out of their geographic area to bigger conferences with better tv revenues and bowl affiliations. I know its all about increasing the money flow and donations etc. Its given us a renewed appreciation for the Service Acadamies,the Ivy's and the smaller division schools who can balance sports and education as priorities .Sadly,this is what we admired about JoePa and Penn State.
     
  2. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    Penn State will be fine. This situation is a tragedy, but going forward, PSU will continue as a strong academic institution with an incredible sense of community. They have many obstacles, but so did Kent State, and Kent never had the PSU sense of pride and balance of top notch academia and athletics. The right people in the right positions will get it done.

    Nick:beer:
     
  3. Tellafriend

    Tellafriend High-Roller

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    Penn State deserves the death penalty. You had a sexual abuse cover up at the highest levels of the sports program. Imagine if it were your son who was a victim and it could have all been prevented by a simple phone call. As it turned out, "Papa Joe" lacked the fortitude it took to do that, plain and simple. His statute is coming down, as should the program. The kids there now can transfer. But football is the last thing folks there should be focused on. Again, imagine your son, nephew, or even neighbor as one of those victims. I'm just waiting on Sandusky (sp) to the honorable thing and off himself.
     
  4. JillyFromPhilly

    JillyFromPhilly Tourist

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    I agree 100%!

    But as to the question, was there a winner? In a sad way, yes, there was - Sandusky himself - because he got to spend another 10-13 years molesting god knows how many other young boys essentially because Joe Paterno cared more about his own reputation than he did about children being molested. Internal Penn State E-mails now prove that Paterno was well aware of the accusations against Sandusky as early as 1998, which means he perjured himself before the grand jury when he said that the first he heard of anything of the sort was when McQueary came to him in 2001. And I forget if it was in 1998 or 2001, but E-mails also clearly show that other top university officials were preparing to go to the proper authorities until Paterno stepped in and stopped them from doing so.

    It's ironic that Paterno's legacy has been forever tarnished, all because of actions he took to try and protect that legacy at all costs. People say the other good things he's done should outshine this one bad thing. But I'm sorry, looking the other way - and actively encouraging other people in authority to look the other way when you are essentially the ruler of your own little fiefdom [and as someone well familiar with the culture in "Happy valley", there is no question Paterno was king & ruler out there] - and doing nothing when you could have prevented children from being molested is a crime so heinous that he could have been Mother Theresa the rest of his life and it still wouldn't make up for it.
     
  5. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    This has likely been going on since the 1960s or 1970s. Sandusky founded The Second Mile in 1977. Paterno and those indicted for lying to the grand jury (and Spanier) likely knew in the 1970s or 1980s.

    Sandusky was denied any possible chance at Paterno's HC job upon retirement. The reason Joe's top coordinator was denied ever taking over was the fact that Jerry's sick tendencies were widely known. Juanita College knew enough about Sandusky to deny a volunteer coaching spot on their staff a few years ago. Paterno lied until the day he died. He denied even knowing what man rape was, despite being a life long Catholic and student of the Greek classics.

    I'm done with CFB and all other NCAA sports if they sweep this under the rug with the rumored "unprecedented" penalties consisting of bowl bans and scholarship reductions, penalties they have handed out dozens of times. Even the rumored "$30-$60M fine" is not enough.

    The bottom line sadly there are many Penn State fans and alumni who have no proper perspective of what is important and who the true victims are. The victims are not Joe Paterno and his obnoxious family. Penn State alumni just elected a "reform trustee candidate" with a platform of reinstating Paterno as coach emeritus and apologizing to Paterno's family (who has received $13M more from the state in January, millions from Sandusky's Second Mile and tens of millions from endorsements throughout the years).

    [YOUTUBE]sAlTICB_7PU[/YOUTUBE]

    You will need to purge this attitude and the Death Penalty would be a first good step into restoring the proper balance and perspective. It will likely take 40-60 years + based on the attitude. By allowing the program to continue with a wrist slap, Emmert and the NCAA are acting similarly to Penn State by allowing a "Too much $ to fail" program to get away with a criminal conspiracy to harbor a serial child rapist for decades.

    Forty years later, the first thing many people think about when they think about Kent State are the National Guard shootings.

    In 2050, the first thing many people will think of when they think of Penn State is Sandusky and the cover-up. The way people are entrenching and continuing to defend Paterno, this may not go away until the 2200s.
     
  6. Dean Martin

    Dean Martin VIP Whale

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    I agree 100%....it will take "years". My wife and I were discussing this yesterday and I told her; "the American public can be very accepting of many things but child abuse and animal abuse cross the line." There's just no rebuttal to letting this go on that can be found acceptable, regardless of who you are or how great your football program is/was.

    To answer the OP's question...probably not....other than the unknown kids that would have been molested had this story not been exposed.
     
  7. KellyLovesVegas

    KellyLovesVegas certified personal trainer/retired space nerd

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    Very well said, Jilly :thumbsup: How ironic that Paterno's motto for the Penn State football program was "Success With Honor." <choke, choke> Absolute power absolutely corrupts.
     
  8. DOUBLE B

    DOUBLE B Tourist

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    I don't know if anything can be done to make the "Penn Staters" understand the world does not relvove around their football program and Joe P.
     
  9. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    It's not the Penn Staters. It's every major program in sports. Don't listen to the talking heads.... There was criminal conduct that is being dealt with. The "severe" NCAA sanctions (not severe) were just handed down. The program will continue, as it should. The people responsible will be punished.

    The PSU program and academia will continue and will recover. A long road, yes, but they will recover.

    Nick:beer:
     
  10. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    I'm done with CFB and all other NCAA sports if they sweep this under the rug with the rumored "unprecedented" penalties consisting of bowl bans and scholarship reductions, penalties they have handed out dozens of times.

    You're done? Why?.... and if you previously were a serious CFB fan, I highly doubt that. Look, we're all pissed at what happened, but come back to reality. If you loved college sports and what it stands for, the actions of PSU officials has nothing to do with other programs in other divisions. Is the purest of college sports, Divison III Mount Union Program now ruined because University Officials at a billion dollar program in PSU made horrible decisions?

    40-60 years to restore proper balance and perspective?

    Huh? Based on what? Proper balance will never exist at a major Division I powerhouse. That is reality. Hate it, or love it, 106,000 fans will fill seats at Beaver Stadium when PSU plays. There will never be balamnce when that kind of money is involved. Will PSU ever allow a cover up of this magnitude again? I highly douby it, so some persepctive has already been restored.

    Forty years later, the first thing many people think about when they think about Kent State are the National Guard shootings.

    Yes. As I stated earlier, That is Kent. They have never been a D1 powerhouse, and they likely will never be one. Apples and oranges.

    In 2050, the first thing many people will think of when they think of Penn State is Sandusky and the cover-up. The way people are entrenching and continuing to defend Paterno, this may not go away until the 2200s.

    The 2200's? It will never go away. There will always be a dark cloud hanging over PSU due to this scandal, but they will persevere.

    Nick:beer:
     
  11. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    Furthermore... "Unprecedented" NCAA sanctions?

    4 year bowl ban, 60 million, forfeited wins?

    That is a joke. People don't understand in-depth realities. Most see the headlines. Today at work, a colleague told me "Looks like PSU got slammed". Uh, no. When sanctions against UNLV, USC, Ohio State and SMU for recuiting violations and paying student athletes are nearly as severe as a criminal cover-up of this magnitude, I have a problem with that.

    Our news media does a terrible job. Ohio State was given a 2 year bowl ban for violations that were non-criminal in nature. PSU gets a 4 year bowl ban for this? WTF is wrong with the NCAA and our media? All entities involved know the seriousness of this particular situation. Horrible job.

    Nick:beer:
     
  12. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    You can doubt or accept, its up to you. I have no reason to be dishonest.

    This episode crossed a line for me and I'm sure others as well. The NCAA ruled the same way Spanier did: Penn State football must go on regardless of the violations. Every game must be played, Penn State shall lose no home games, all games must be televised. They handed out the same penalty handed out 123 times in the past. Hardly "unprecedented", despite the spin.

    I have closely followed CFB since the mid 1970s. Ran a CFB Bowl pool from 1983-2011 (will hand it off to another participant this year).

    My Alabama Crimson Tide won last year and I missed the final second half (listened on radio) after our entire several block area lost our power. Fitting way to end my fandom. I no longer watch the NFL or NBA. CFB was one of two team sports I still followed regularly (MLB the other). There are some things that trump sports. The show shouldn't always go on. The Death Penalty was warranted but not applied. Good riddance.

    I'll leave you with this final quote by the antithesis of Joe Paterno:

    Winning isn't worthwhile unless one has something finer and nobler behind it.

    - Amos Alonzo Stagg
     
  13. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    About "are there any winners" ... of course not. The story is tragic, and awful, and sad. However, the publicity and the horror of it will serve as both a useful reminder to those most absorbed in the sport that it has limited importance, and there is a bigger picture. And hopefully it yet again puts the focus on the people we give great influence over the vulnerable to.

    As for the punishment, for the most part I think the punishment of Penn State football would have happened organically anyway. A school's reputation can come back from boosters paying players, or scholarship violations, etc etc. Those things can be punished and when the punishment is done, the athletes still want to go there.

    But who is going to want to play football at Penn State? Who wants to shower in that building? At best, Penn State was already on the way to permanent also ran.

    The NCAA penalties today were fine. Lets current students play out the string or transfer, gets money to programs to prevent this stuff, keeps PSU football out of the spotlight.

    But I think what would happen ideally is for PSU to self announce that they are ending their football program, but that the school will honor the scholarships of all current players that do not wish or are unable to transfer. Do that in addition to paying the fines.
     
  14. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    Self announce that they are ending football? Not even worth debating.

    The NCAA penalties were not and are not fine. Not even close.

    PSU will again be a top tier football program. You are being overly dramatic as to what you feel will happen, based your feelings concerning the actions of those involved. That is human nature, but you need to look at this as a realist, and assess without emotion. Seriously, reread that last 2 sentences. We are all pissed, but reality is reality.

    Nick:beer:
     
  15. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    So you leave me with a final quote by a legendary college football coach. With your bio, you are a fan, and a big fan. I don't see you leaving the game entirely behind. Never watching Penn State.... I can see that. I would actually agree with that.

    The death penalty should have been applied, but again, there is a serious misunderstanding of exactly what the NCAA "death penalty" is. It isn't death, but a short prison sentence. So, if the NCAA did the right thing and cancelled PSU football for the season, you would then watch Oregon/ USC? Likewise, because they didn't, The University of Oregon's program loses a fan or viewer?

    Nick:beer:
     
  16. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I am very much looking at this like a realist.

    What I said about PSU closing the problems themselves was a wish, not an expectation. Of course that won't happen. But if you want the ultimate mea culpa, the ultimate pronouncement that the school will no longer allow itself to let its football program be prioritized over common decency, it would be to simply end the program despite the costs that would incur.

    But the rest I said was not wishful thinking. It is easy for schools to overcome booster scandals, etc. Recruits will care about the bowl bans and penalties, but not about the scandal that generated it. Ohio State and Miami will still be fine. Even SMU could still get all the way back if it can get into a major conference.

    But Penn State? How do you recruit a kid to Penn State? How do you sell the program when all of its tradition was built around one man who has been so sullied?

    Its not like PSU was a natural recruiting ground anyway. They managed to become a national power because of Paterno. Because of the image he created, the culture he created. So when that image ("success with honor"?) is turned on itself, and that culture is blamed for allowing Sandusky to continue his vile acts, what is left?

    If Penn State were starting a new football program from scratch today (even if they got to do it in the Big Ten), they'd have a tough task ever reaching prominence. Not a great recruiting ground, and a tough program to start up. But their task is tougher than that. They have to start from LESS THAN ZERO.

    So no, I don't think they'll be a football power again. It was debatable whether they were truly still that much of a power before the scandal.

    America may love a redemption story. But when the crime is caring too much about your football program, it is tough to redeem it by rebuilding that program.
     
  17. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    yes the NCAA is the winner ... they get to pocket $60M in fines. they always manage to win ...

    as far as the death penalty, what good does it do to punish coaches and players that are there now that had nothing to do with what happened years ago? all of the people involved are gone and have been or will be punished. that's the proper course. punishing people that weren't even there during the events is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
     
  18. surfside

    surfside Tourist

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    60 million fine

     
  19. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    If you believe Emmert, the NCAA isn't pocketing that, it is going to " “support programs around the nation that serve the victims of child sexual abuse and seek to prevent such abuse from happening.”

    Quite true. The big problem with the death penalty is the dozens of kids on athletic scholarship that suddenly have to move if they want to continue being college football players. At least this presents them a choice. They'll let you move it you want out. But if you don't want to go to another school, or have no other offers, you can stick it out.

    In addition, Emmert was on shaky ground here. He bypassed all current due process traditions. And it is highly debatable whether the NCAA has the jurisdiction to deal with this particular criminal matter. To issue the death penalty would risk a backlash about the power Emmert was exercising, and perhaps challenges about whether the NCAA should be involved in the issue at all.
     
  20. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    They will reach prominence. They are a storied program, and have a long road ahead, but they have the money, the facilities, the legacy, and their new coach, Bill O'Brien is a good man. PSU will be a perrenial bowl team again. Not in 40 years, but within 10.

    Recruiting will be a challenge, but they will land 4 and 5 star recruits again. Remember that in 10 years, the recruits won't even remember the media scrutiny surrounding PSU football. The black cloud of Jerry Sandusky will still exist, but it won't prevent the decision to make PSU an official visit.

    They were 9-4 last year, and lost 27-11 to the National Champions, Alabama. The defeated Ohio State ansd narrowly lost to Nebraska. There's no debate on their prior status in CFB. 107,000 fans like clockwork on saturdays at Beaver Stadium. They had a few rough years late under Paterno, but overall, they were a powerhouse. Now, it is a different story indeed. They rightfully will struggle with recruiting for several years.

    Mark my words, PSU football will rebound. I'm not a fan, never have been a fan, and will not be one in the future, but Penn State is Alabama is Nebraska is Tennessee is Florida is Ohio State is Miami is USC is Texas is Oklahoma is Michigan is Auburn is LSU is......... Just the way it is man. They'll be back. Perhaps the biggest proverbial mountain climb in history, but it will happen.

    Nick:beer:
     
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