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Another Reason to Never Fly Allegiant

Discussion in 'Getting There & Getting Around' started by Ernie Vegas, Jul 28, 2015.

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  1. Ernie Vegas

    Ernie Vegas Low-Roller

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  2. chitownjohn

    chitownjohn High-Roller

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    Two possible scenarios for this situation with one outcome...

    1. The ground attendant didn't provide the requested fuel quantity. However pilots still at fault because it's their responsibility to verify fuel quantity.
    2. Pilots miscalculated fuel quantify.

    This type of miscue is not tolerated in the US, these pilots will never fly in the US. They may fly overseas where the restrictions are much looser and several international regions are facing a major pilot shortage (especially Asia)
     
  3. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Or it's possible they deliberately "miscalculate" a little low as a regular practice and pressure the pilots to go along?
     
  4. SH0CK

    SH0CK Stylin' and Profilin' Quasi Tech Admin

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    I flew on an Allegiant flight years ago from Knoxville to Las Vegas where the captain came over the PA before take off and told us that we would need to stop in West Texas to refuel before heading onto Vegas. I had flown them to Vegas before and we made it with no stopping to refuel, so it struck me as very odd.

    So, yeah, this doesn't surprise me one bit with Allegiant.
     
  5. Kolmeseiska

    Kolmeseiska Low-Roller

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    This is most likely the correct reason. Flying without excess fuel makes the plane lighter and therefore saves the company some money. Absolutely brilliant place to save money, only a few hundred lives at risk on every flight. We've got one airline in Europe who has made plenty of these emergency landings due to same reason. Google "RyanAir low fuel" for more information. In the meanwhile I stick to airlines that value my life more than a few hundred dollars.
     
  6. bjpcyclone

    bjpcyclone High-Roller

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    My dad recently took a flight from Des Moines, IA to Vegas on Allegiant. They had to make an unscheduled landing in Wichita to refuel because the head winds were stronger than anticipated. How does that happen??
     
  7. h0und10

    h0und10 Low-Roller

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    Before we jump down the pilots throats, They value there lives too, i doubt they want to fly with less fuel, It is cooperate leaders not on the flight trying to save a few bucks by flying lighter. the pilots hate it at much as the passengers, especially since they KNOW how little extra fuel there is. The passengers are usually clueless.
     
  8. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Good point. Folks forget that the person making the final decision on each flight is actually ONBOARD as well.
     
  9. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    HOLD ON JUST A BIT

    In this case, they had enough fuel to get to the intended airport. They did not have to stop and get extra fuel. If I am reading the article correctly, the intended airport was temporarily closed. Granted, the airline should have known it was closed and the pilot notified. Thinking maybe somebody else (Air traffic?) should know they could not land there either.

    Granted, the fuel reserves might have been tight.
     
  10. AndrewJ

    AndrewJ Tourist

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    I've flown Allegiant a few times. I don't mind it. Not the greatest airline in the world, but certainly a cheap way to get to Vegas. Without them, I probably would have 1 or 2 fewer trips to Vegas under my belt.
     
  11. Ernie Vegas

    Ernie Vegas Low-Roller

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    Federal regs require enough fuel to reach the intended airport and the designated alternate airport plus 45 minutes of fuel beyond that. They were told on approach there would be a window to land in 20 minutes and the pilot responded in 3 minutes they would only have enough fuel left to land. I think the pilots and Allegiant management are at odds and a planned strike was avoided by injunction in April. There may be many layers yet to be peeled with this story.
     
  12. Kolmeseiska

    Kolmeseiska Low-Roller

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    Enough fuel to get to the intended airport? Yeah, they did, with 3 minutes to spare. Sort of like saying "I've got enough fuel to drive home from here unless there's a red light on the way". There's just about million things that can happen to cause the landing to be delayed for 5 minutes even if the airport was open and fully functioning. I could understand an hour but 4 minutes, really?
     
  13. runningonthehub

    runningonthehub Low-Roller

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    I would bet that if anybody checked the fuel reserve on that airplane after it landed, you would have found that it had more than enough fuel.
    A flight from Las Vegas to Fargo is a short flight. I doubt that the captain would have allowed that airplane to be fueled without enough fuel in reserve.
    I think this was a flight crew who did not read their NOTAMs. There is no way that Allegiant's dispatch center and the pilots did not know that this airport would be closed when they flew there.
    This flight crew simply did not want to divert to another airport They knew they had screwed up by not reading the latest NOTAMS. They were going to force ATC to allow them to land in Fargo.
    That;s why they said they were low on fuel. All the the captain had to do is declare an emergency due to low fuel and they would have been allowed to land.
    The pilots and Allegiant's dispatch center are both at fault for this fiasco. They should have known the airport would be closed.
     
  14. Kolmeseiska

    Kolmeseiska Low-Roller

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    Not sure if I'm missing something but why didn't the pilot just wait the 20 minutes and land at the closed airport then without having to declare an emergency? How far was the closest airport?
     
  15. Ernie Vegas

    Ernie Vegas Low-Roller

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    I believe Grand Forks was the alternative. 80 miles north of Fargo. The flight had a 12 minute window to land if it had left LV on time. It took off an hour late.
     
  16. CenterfieldNine

    CenterfieldNine Low-Roller

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    They also need to have enough fuel to get to a divert airport that's on the filed plan.

    45 minutes extra is also a common figure I've heard. Or 30. The thing is, I've been on planes that have had to take fuel off due to a metal change where the plane was fueled to go to a further destination originally. You can't have too much fuel when landing, either.

    Just my two cents.

    Also Declaring an emergency is always a catch all in the back of every pilots playbook. There are atc recordings to this vague effect as well "cactus 1234 require clearance to land or else we will declare an emergency" "deny. heading 220 fl 13 thousand" "cactus 1234 declaring an emergency, descending through 8 thousand runway 28L"

    It's a move that's used, like it or lump it.
     
  17. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Maybe.

    Or as another poster said - they just wanted to "force" the atc to let them go ahead and land.
     
  18. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Vegas to fargo is like 1200-1300 miles, it's halfway across the country, what's short about it?
     
  19. runningonthehub

    runningonthehub Low-Roller

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    It is actually 1168 nautical miles. That's a about a two and half hour flight. I considerate that to be short flight. When I fly to Vegas its a four hour flight. so for me 1168 miles is a short flight.
     
  20. runningonthehub

    runningonthehub Low-Roller

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    It is interesting that the pilots flying that day were executives at Allegiant. One was the VP of Flight Operations and the other was the Director of Flight Safety.
    So, these were not rookie/inexperienced pilots. They knew what they were doing. This stunt seems like it was part of a plan to keep from having more cancelled flights by Allegiant.
     
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