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another idiotic arena proposal

Discussion in 'Casino Industry & Development' started by Someone, Dec 24, 2013.

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  1. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

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    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/dec/23/another-arena-proposed-las-vegas-strip/

    the forces of "fail" are very strong with this one

    the location would be a major boost for Jenting and the current owner of the vacant FtBlue and for SLS, but this is exactly what Vegas does NOT need an over priced under sized arena to compete with all of the arenas of the same general size and slightly smaller and to be in the way of getting a larger venue that could host football or major soccer games

    really I can't remember the last time I was at a concert and thought to myself "this concert is so amazing because it is in this amazing arena that people wasted way too much money to build....and oh wow look at the roof open and close I have never seen that before"

    as long as the sound is good/great, I can get concessions, and at least have a floor drain or mop bucket to piss in when needed (shout out to the now retired beiber) I really don't give a damn about the rest of the arena features and that really goes for sporting venues as much or more than concert venues

    I doubt Vegas will ever get an NBA team and the likelihood of a hockey team is slightly better, but the likelihood of the overall success of a hockey team is non-existent

    Vegas needs a football/super bowl/major soccer tournament sized stadium not a glitz filled rehash of existing venues
     
  2. UTE

    UTE Plastics

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    Actually, this is a viable business model. I'm not saying it's a "go" - I'm just pointing out such a venue would have sufficient draw in Las Vegas to make it.

    Bill
     
  3. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Viable or not, if anyone actually believes a team with no real development track record has put together a syndicate of $1.3 billion in project financing in the early planning stages before neither a tenant nor operator has been found, no architectural or engineering plans drawn up, etc. must be smoking crack.

    Not to mention they would have shopped this around to put together this syndicate of "several banks and international lenders" yet not a peep of it in any of the business press that reports much more obscure project financing proposals than something like this every day.

    I think the LV Sun is reporting a press release as a news piece and just helping the sponsors market the deal, knowingly or not.
     
  4. jon95616

    jon95616 Low-Roller

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    Word is the NHL may expand by two teams to balance the conferences.

    Seattle and Las Vegas.
     
  5. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    Although a more difficult proposition, Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce would be better off trying to attract some manufacturing business or corporate headquarters for some other business outside the entertainment industry. We all know that Las Vegas is all about entertainment but Las Vegas needs some balance, just like many other towns that focus on one industry for the bulk of their employment.
     
  6. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

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    the problem is MGM and IMG (that actually have casinos and hotel rooms and experience running MAJOR arenas and in the case of IMG actual cash in the bank) are already further along on a 20K seat arena that "could be used for NBA or NHL teams" and of course IMG also has those connections as well

    and the Thomas & Mack center is still standing and it is 18,500 seats and the reality is for concerts people do not need luxury boxes (front row is always where it is at not in a closed in box way away from the stage) and again the same thing with boxing so the lack of luxury boxes in the Thomas & Mack is not an issue for major concerts or boxing matches and most boxing matches are either at a smaller casino owned venue or at a temp casino built outdoor arena (again proving the adage that luxury and luxury boxes are not needed)

    so this new arena would have one existing new competitor with major casino, arena operator, sports franchise, concert and boxing promotions connections backing it (IMG and MGM) and the Thomas & Mack still standing and still realistically viable for many Vegas needs plus all the other smaller venues in existence

    and at this point and time who knows what UNLV is going to do there is no indication they will be moving to or using the IMG/MGM facility and IF (a BIG IF right now) UNLV can pull something together that works for both football and basketball (or even just for one or the other) that is yet another new 20K+ arena that will be in Vegas even if it replaces the Thomas & Mack and if it is a football stadium that might not even replace the Thomas & Mack

    and with as much as Vegas has "going on" as far as concerts and live events they still lack a single pro sports team and many cities that are much larger manage to get by with a single arena in the 20K seat range even with pro sports franchises anchoring them

    like everything Vegas it seems the developers and promoters do not get the fact that Vegas is not immune from market forces and that should be abundantly clear at this point and time and the "if we just build it" has lead Vegas off into a ditch that they easily could have gotten out of if they had used even a modicum of restraint and I am pretty certain they will do the same with "clubs" in the not too distant future and if you ask The Palms and some others they might already be getting there with clubs as well

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/aeg-mgm-resorts-international-offer-first-look-arena-las-vegas-strip

    I think the real hope for Vegas to diversify is banking and mining and while there is issues with banking (all that cash right there with all that gambling) I am pretty surprised that Vegas never became a major or even a minor banking center and while mining exist in Nevada and Vegas does have some mine company HQs again not near to the level that one could expect and mining equipment could be one area of manufacturing that they could break into

    I suppose retail as well as far as a retail company HQ, but retail is so consolidated now there are really not many companies out there to lure a HQ and many are in areas that are themselves fashion centers/retail well beyond Vegas
     
  7. smartone

    smartone VIP Whale

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    This past July, the Nevada legislature set-up a commission on behalf of UNLV to work on their proposal. It's got some pretty high-powered decision makers and last week they moved forward and selected a feasibility-study consultant to build a multi-pupose arena (football, basketball, rodeo, etc). That contract was signed and is going forward. Now that and fifty-cents will get you a cup of coffee and there's "studies" all over the place for related projects. This one has some "juice", in my opinion, as the NSHE (Nevada System of Higher Education) is taking the lead. Most likely site is all the vacant property that used to be all the car-rental spaces, north of the airport from Tropicana on up... across from Thomas and Mack. If built there, I'm sure the current Thomas and Mack property would figure in as well.

    I have mixed emotions about NBA, NHL or the like in Vegas. Personally, I'd love to see it, BUT I question how "passionate" a venue it would be. Though Las Vegas has a couple million residents in the area it would serve, I fear the arena would have a sizable number of seats given out to gaming patrons. The kind of people who would be somewhat passive, come late, leave early just to say they saw an NBA game. They might even be the kind of people who root for the other team. I question the "passion" that would be developed for a Vegas team. Though, to be fair, the UNLV Rebels, particularly in their heyday had incredible crowds of passionate fans. Unlike cities like Boston, San Francisco, New York, etc. Las Vegas lacks neighborhoods and a sense of community. Most of the town has no real roots there, they all came from somewhere else for the most part. I dunno... I'm rambling now, and I suppose a lot of west is that way (Phoenix as an example).
     
  8. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

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    I agree with you on the concerns about a pro sports team

    I think Vegas as much as anywhere has a transient population which is people coming with fan allegiances intact or leaving before they develop one to the Vegas team and crowds that have a large number of people cheering for the other team (Phoenix residents and the Dallas Cowboys was well known for this until very recently)

    also with Vegas being a 24 hour town and a night life center a large number of successful people that would be pro sports ticket buyers will probably be at work when a lot of the games are being played and same with the weekends

    even though the USA all over is going to less 9-5 jobs and weekend work that is still usually more retail and service sector while higher income earners still can pull the 9-5 or they can at least craft their own hours to fit in some things they want to do.....in Vegas higher earners would IMO be much more likely to be at work at 6pm or 8pm because of the nature of the business

    and I would hate to imagine the performance of pro athletes living in Vegas for a Vegas team.......sure they get in plenty of trouble now in places like LA and NY and even night life wastelands......but a pro athlete in Vegas = financial disaster in the making and major team drama
     
  9. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    aeg was going to do that arena before it hooked up with mgm for the new arena.

    these are the 2 problems besides a profesional sports teal.

    one aeg is the exlusive promoter of the new arena
    i belive live nation has mgm and madalay bay.

    there no reason for either of them to compete with themselves with another arena so basicaly they would have to be there own promoter bidding onn acts and thats real hard.and they have no leverage
     
  10. wigwam_salesman

    wigwam_salesman VIP Whale

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    Large scale commercial projects don't generally get started on a whim. Feasibility studies are done for months or years first. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But we didn't get this evolved because of not taking risks.
     
  11. smartone

    smartone VIP Whale

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    Absolutely agreed! I simply threw in the "that and fifty cents..." line to head-off the usual nay-sayers who'd jump in and state... "Ahhhhh studies don't mean nuttin'!
     
  12. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    This project isn't started. Spend a month with an investment manager and you'll see how many large projects get heavily promoted by weak sponsors. This entire "news" article stems from a press release by the sponsor that read likes a personal puff piece but in between the lines comes across as an idea he's creating buzz for and not much else.

    It's bad reporting, instead of regurgitating a press release as news a journalist is supposed to do some research and put it in context. You wouldn't see it reported this way in the major papers.

    I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the unnamed financing he has "lined up" is really just some LOIs signed to engage in good faith negotiations if a list of other things happen first. It happens all the time.
     
  13. wigwam_salesman

    wigwam_salesman VIP Whale

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    I head up project management for a large digital agency so I'm fully aware of how many projects are the dreamed up idea of over empowered sponsors.

    It turns out I'm not very good at reading though.

    Anyhow, my comment was really a generalisation than specific to this case.
     
  14. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    "Empowered" is a good description of some of these sponsors. For example he says they're scheduled to break ground next year and he's meeting with the Clark County Commission in the "weeks ahead" to answer questions. The LV Sun didn't seem to bother calling the Commission but at least the local 8news did and reported: Clark County says it has not received any submissions for land use approval at this time.

    But my favorite is where they are in their discussions to bring an NBA team to the arena:
    So his old boss is the head of operations for the NBA and his friend Kiki is an executive vice president. That's how he's going to bring in a team. Let's cut him a check! :thumbsup:

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/24290963/former-runnin-rebel-jackie-robinson-announces-las-vegas-arena
     
  15. Busyman

    Busyman VIP Whale

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    Ha I was just looking at that channel 8 vid and also channel 13.

    If it does break ground next year, naysayers can eat crow tho'. Lol

    Quite often, ideas don't equal reality.

    I've seen so many "proposals" that were vaporware.
     
  16. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Since most of the other proposals seem to be dead, I don't have a problem with people pitching them until one really sticks since UNLV could use new facilities. However, this one seems goofy and is probably DOA. I really hope the NHL isn't seriously considering expanding. That's one of the leagues that would probably benefit from a contraction. Why would you put up all the money that needed to start a team in a league with a crappy tv deal? I also question if Vegas could develop the fanbase necessary to support a pro team.
     
  17. Busyman

    Busyman VIP Whale

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    Contraction and move one struggling NHL team to Vegas.

    Hockey is just not big in the warmer climate areas. At least in Vegas, you'd get the locals and a nice dose of tourists which come year round.

    There should really only be about 20 NHL teams. The Original Six, The rest of the Canadian teams, Wash Caps, Pitt Penguins, LA Kings, Col Avalanche, Philly Flyers and a few others.

    Some teams are dismal.
     
  18. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    Cities buid uneeded conventionand arena space for different reasons. Rarely is there an actual need for them. They get built using hotel taxes and the nnly peope who get to vote on it is hotel owners. F course they spend no money yet reap all the benefits when people stay in their hotels.
    The taxpayers end up footing the bills for the upkeep on the under used spaces.

    Every majr city does it.
     
  19. Bane

    Bane Tourist

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    Jackie Robinson has tried to raise large amounts of money for projects before with no success.

    So far nothing he has ever proposed has materialized but that hasn't stopped him from dreaming big.

    Unfortunately he hasn't learned that just having some contacts with Las Vegas executives and playing a couple of years for the NBA isn't enough to raise billions of dollars.
     
  20. Busyman

    Busyman VIP Whale

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    We had an exception in DC when Abe Pollin (former Caps/Wizards owner) built the MCI Center (now Verizon Center) with his own money and made the DC Chinatown area ultra-hot.
     
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