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An Observation of players after 15 years on the casino floor

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by cardslambert, Dec 19, 2013.

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  1. cardslambert

    cardslambert Newbie

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    My experience is mostly Vegas. Large casino chain. 99% Table Games and that is split about 80% High Limit and 20% Main Floor.

    With that said, I read this board on and off for a couple years. Like in every industry and trade everyone has lots of opinions and convictions.

    I read with interest the player's perspective on dealers, cards and individual properties. I would like to throw out here that, I have witnessed the best card counters and so called 'skilled' players lose time after time. I have also witnessed the so called 'beginner' or 'unskilled' player win time after time. (and everything else in between).

    Point being, randomness falls frequently and each turn of the card or new shoe or spin is not indicative of the past event(s).

    If any game could be figured out or made systematic it would be removed. What works for one shoe doesn't hold for the next.

    I hope nothing I said insults anyone, it was not meant to. Just my two cents.
     
  2. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    Not insulted. You report what you've seen.
    I have seen the same thing.
    I know that people have won at the highest house edged game available. Like keno. They got lucky.
    But I have always said that the smartest thing to do is to make your luck work as little as possible.
    Pick the lowest house edged games. Play them the way they are suppose to be played. Hope for the best. In the long run you will come out better. Maybe not a winner, but at least losing less than playing dumb games in a dumb manner.
     
  3. NickyDim

    NickyDim VIP Whale

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    It's why I don't play to win. I gamble to have fun, laugh, drink, carouse, get excited, but most of all expect to lose. I know my odds for every game and don't make stupid bets and I am NEVER disappointed and most times pleasantly surprised. It's why it's has stayed fun for me for 4 decades.
     
  4. cardslambert

    cardslambert Newbie

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    B.J. and Baccarat dominates the H.L.'s with a Roulette and/or a Craps Table thrown in the corner of certain ones. Wasn't referring to 'carnival games'; However, witnessed many wins of sizable amounts at those too.

    I was mainly commenting on any certain 'thing' or 'event' that works one time for a player and how a conviction or gospel develops from that happening.
     
  5. Thor

    Thor Beer Drinker

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    ding ding ding...we have a winner!!! i'm the same way dude...gambling is entertainment, not livelihood...:beer::beer::beer:
     
  6. KazooTom

    KazooTom Low-Roller

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    Thanks for posting and thank you for your insight from the pit perspective. I never enter a casino without first realizing that if the house did not hold an advantage, they would not offer the game. I consider it my job to study the game and it's various strategies to find the game and method of play that reduces the house advantage as far as possible. I am a low stakes player and enjoy the entertainment value of the games. I like the social aspect of a blackjack table and confine my play to basic strategy. I once attempted card counting but found it required too much concentration of a minimal potential gain. I believe I fare as well using basic strategy and can enjoy the social aspects of the game much more. Pai Gow Poker is another of my favorites as my buy in seems to last longer due to the large number of "push" hands. The occasional time I spend at the Craps table is mostly grinding with pass line bets with odds. Not very exciting, but another budget stretcher.

    So far, most of the money I leave at the table has gone to tips for the dealers and cocktail waitresses. I figure if I can leave near even, I've had a great time, a few drinks and an occasional comped buffet, I am ahead in my mind. While I have experienced a few of those "lucky" days, I go in hoping my meager bank roll will buy me several hours of fun.

    How do the dealers and pit people look at us "grinders"?
     
  7. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Glad to have you on board. There are tons of threads particularly in this section and the Comps section where your perspective as a dealer and supervisor would be awesome. We're always up to read about some of the inside baseball type stuff especially.....and crazy stories from the high limit rooms. :evillaugh

    +1

    Well said!
     
  8. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    The advantage gained from using a simple plus/minus count on a two-deck game (H17,DAS) is not significant...but it is real.

    Of course, just because the count is positive doesn't mean the player will win. It simply means that his chances of winning are better than they are when the count is not positive.

    I've increased my bet on positive counts plenty of times, drawn a 19 or 20 and still lost or pushed the hand...and sometimes, when the count is negative & I drop my bet down to the table minimum, I get a blackjack or 20.

    I think you're saying much of the same thing with your post.
    The decrease in HA for a counter like me is quite small. But it really does exist.

    My most common advice to people that challenge me about the value of card-counting is this:
    Take a single deck and remove all of the 2s through 7s, leaving only 8s, 9s, 10s & Aces.
    Create two "player" seats - one betting $5 every hand & you control the other seat, permitted to bet as much as you'd like, up to $50 a hand. The $5 Player must play all hands according to basic strategy. You do not.
    I guarantee that the 'card counter' (you) will make considerably more money after 50 hands than the '$5 flat-bettor'.

    (People who try this usually become convinced when they're done.)
    Think about just these two hands:
    You have A-any card. The dealer is showing 8. The worse you can do is push, so you double every single time it happens.
    The dealer has an 8 showing. You have two 10s. You will split them every time, as it is impossible for you to lose...the worse you can do is push both hands.
    And, if you watch as the 7s, 8s or 9s disappear, you will have even more information with which to modify your bet size and your double/split decisions.

    Obviously, this scenario is not 'real world', but it clearly makes the point that knowing what cards are gone and what cards are left can definitely give the player an advantage...a very real one.
    Anyway - welcome! Ditto what kickin' posted! I look forward to learning from your insights.
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  9. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Gambling to me is fun. I gamble for the entertainment, the social aspect, and the challenges it presents.

    The odds are not in my favor, and that's where the excitement comes in. I am David in the land of Goliaths.

    I can't match their bankroll (casino's), my chances are slim. However, no matter how unlikely, I STILL PLAY TO WIN. :beer::thumbsup:

    So what the hell....just go for it!:faint:
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
  10. Suekel

    Suekel VIP Whale

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    I wish we had a like button. :peace::peace:
     
    Vegas Just Because...
  11. vegasvic

    vegasvic VIP Whale

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    Good thread. Agree with most of the above. Of course I want to win but I play for fun. I play smart (basic strategy on BJ, no middle table bets in craps, etc), don't get trashed when I gamble and always have fun.

    And I never play for comps. That's something I've seen a lot of over the years. Players gambling more than they should just to get something "free". Always play your normal amount/bankroll and take whatever comps you get. Don't chase them. I tend to spread out my play so my comps are minimal but that's fine.
     
  12. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    That's pretty much my MO also Vic. The only other things I'd add are that anything can happen in the short run, as CardsLamert alluded, and I see so many people chasing their losing streak.

    Welcome CardsLambert, can't wait to read more of your insight!!!:peace::beer:
     
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  13. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    If you're going to play blackjack you may as well play it to the maximum of one's ability and chance of winning.
    At least know all facets of basic and even playing an A-5 count is easily done.
    Regardless, I look forward to more of your posts and inside takes.
     
  14. socalguy92010

    socalguy92010 Tourist

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    Agree 100% with everyone who said they play for fun/entertainment. Of course, winning is always great and I always go to Vegas with hopes of winning but never with an expectation of it.
    BTW, "winning" to me can even mean breaking even. If I can take a couple grand to Vegas and come home with close to that? I've had an amazing weekend of "free" fun.
     
  15. woodsie

    woodsie Low-Roller

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    I'm with this guy. I never gamble enough that it stings and I certainly don't expect to make money. It's such a foolish frame of mind to get in to thinking that a casino is a place you go to make money.

    There is a game with a player edge and it's called going to work. It's the ultimate get rich slowly scheme. The casino is for fun and that's it.
     
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