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Video Poker Advantage to DDB VP?

Discussion in 'Video Poker' started by weluvvegas, Mar 4, 2014.

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  1. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    Forgive me if this has been asked before. I always practice my VP for months prior to a trip and then once I get there, I chicken out and hardly play it. I practice mostly DDB because I notice that is what most of you favor…..but, I’m not sure why.

    Is there an advantage of playing DDB VP vs. regular JoB…or even DW?
     
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  2. Tubbs

    Tubbs High-Roller

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    Many people prefer DDB because of the potential big hits, aces with kicker and so on. It offers more excitement than games like JOB.

    Some people will play DDB over other games, regardless of the pay tables.:poke:
     
  3. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    DDB is my game. As mentioned it is the thrill of aces, 4oak paytables etc. I try to only play 9/6 (98.98%) or 9/5 (97.87%). Below those paytables, I just don't play.
     
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  4. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    There are advantages and disadvantages to every game of VP.

    DDB, compared with most of the other popular games, has more variance. The “swings” will be much greater – your potential win or loss in the short term will be greater in DDB than in most games

    This is because (the good) quads are worth so much more in DDB than they are in say, JoB and because (the bad) two pair is worth only half as much. So, if you hit quads more often than you “should”, you can win big. If you don’t, the 1-1 payoff on the two pair will quickly erode your bankroll.

    LOL. I resemble that remark. I gotta get my fix and I’m willing to pay a little more for it! (You don’t see crack heads comparison shopping, do ya?)
     
  5. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    Who has 9/5 or 9/6 on the strip? I've always had a hard time finding them.

    We might go downtown, maybe I can play there.
     
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  6. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    I haven't been a Strip person for more than a decade, so I can't answer.

    9/6 DDB available at Cal & 4Q at the dollar level. 9/6 also at Suncoast.
    9/5 at MSS, both quarters & dollars.
    9/6 JOB also at MSS.
     
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  7. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Darnit! I was hoping MSS had 9/6 DDB...ohh well...at least Cal does...
    I used to never play anything less than 99.2% for more than nickles...but I've found that if I'm "lucky" then paytables don't matter.
     
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  8. robert m.

    robert m. High-Roller

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    Binion's has a carousel of 4 quarter machines near BJ tables & a bar.

    9/6 DDBP. Good clear screens.

    One of my other favorite places to play is MSS 9/6 DDBP triple play. Three machines along the Main Street wall.

    Last, but not least, I have been know to chase the progressives 9/6 DDBP machines at all 4Q's bars. They are fun progressives because they involve quads -- not royals. So, you will actually end up hitting a progressive every hour or so.
     
  9. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    I'll be taking down these notes and bringing them with me downtown if we go. Are those progressives at 4Q quarters or dollars? I don't think I could survive long on dollars....
     
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  10. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    For DDB vs JoB:
    - DDB has a very big variance, especially compared to JoB
    - JoB is a nice steady game to play and you can get a fair amount of play out of your gambling dollar
    - With DDB if you get ahead of the variance you can have some nice wins and are likely going to cash out a decent profit for your play
    - With DDB if you get behind the variance it is going to suck up your bankroll horribly
    - At lower levels of play it is often easier to find a DDB machine with a good pay table compared to JoB
     
  11. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Echoing what others have said. DDB seems to have a variance that feels "just right" for many VP players. With JoB/Bonus, you often need many quads or a Royal to get ahead in a lengthy session. Deuces, it's either 4 Deuces or a Natural Royal to get you ahead. On the other end of the spectrum, if you play Triple Double Bonus, you'll go broke faster without quads since trips only pay 2 for 1, and the payouts are very top heavy for quads w/kickers. DDB is a happy medium between all these games for many people. As for me, I'll usually play what pays the best, which is usually NOT DDB. But DDB is okay at a lot of Strip casinos though, if you look hard enough.

    I think Harrah's has 9/5 DDB for quarters in the main VP area.
    Bally's has 9/5 DDB with a multiway progressive near the poker room.
    PHo has 9/5 DDB w/Super Times Pay (STP) for nickels, dimes, and quarters. Super Times Pay is an optional bonus bet for random multipliers, strategy is unchanged.
    STP is also a multiline game where you can max bet only one line like this:
    [​IMG]

    PHo possibly has 9/5 DDB game kings too?
    Flamingo has 9/5 DDB somewhere too I think for quarters, but not positive there either.

    Cosmo has 9/6 DDB on their 100-play machine for dimes close to Book and Stage bar, but you only have to make a minimum $1 wager to play (i.e. 2 or more hands at 50c each will work).

    I haven't scoped out MGM properties nearly as much since I doesn't really care to play there as much.

    But if you do play for dollars, you're better off at MGM properties, because some properties do offer 9/6 DDB for dollars.

    Luxor/Excal offer 9/6 DDB w/STP for dollars on all star poker units in the high limit room.

    MGM Grand offers 9/6 DDB w/Quick Quads for dollars. A 50-play game where you only have to bet one line for max credits. Quick Quads ups the game to 99.65% from 98.98% if you choose to play it (you don't have to), but you must learn a different strategy since the rules of the game differ from standard video poker.

    http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/quick-quads/
    http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/quick-quads/double-double-bonus/9-6/


    On the Strip, it's a mixed bag for me. Some places I can find better JoB for quarters or less, sometimes not. DDB is often the better game at a lot of bars I've played at (definitely is for CET bars). However, a lot of strip casinos offer a better "Bonus" game than DDB at the quarter or less level. And Bonus strategy is nearly the same as JoB.

    For OP's and others' benefit, if the full house/flush based on one coin on JoB match DDB, then JoB is the better game. If the full house/flush payouts of DDB are higher, then DDB is better.

    9/6 JoB (45/30 with 5 coins) > 9/6 DDB
    9/6 DDB > 9/5 JoB
    9/5 DDB > 8/5 JoB
    8/5 JoB > 8/5 DDB
    8/5 DDB > 7/5 JoB
    and so on.

    For bonus though, bonus payouts have to be 3 units lower based on one coin to be a worse game than DDB (2 units lower for JoB)!

    So...
    9/6 JoB > 8/5 Bonus > 9/6 DDB
    9/5 JoB > 7/5 Bonus > 9/5 DDB
    8/5 JoB > 6/5 Bonus > 8/5 DDB

    It takes 9/5 DDB to beat the very common 6/5 Bonus, and 9/6 DDB to beat the somewhat common 7/5 Bonus.

    So in my case, I really do play a lot of Bonus on the strip. But the difference between 9/5 DDB and 7/5 Bonus is only 0.14%, so I expect people to play whatever they like best.


    You assume that Joe plays on the floor. Bad assumption. :evillaugh

    9/6 DDB w/STP for quarters on the floor at MSS, iirc. Oxygenator confirms this in another post, but not all are 9/6. No one at VPFree2 has added it yet, since 9/6 DDB is below 99%, who cares if STP makes it 99.26%, blah, blah.
     
  12. robert m.

    robert m. High-Roller

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    The progressive 9/6 DDBP @ 4Qs are quarters.
     
  13. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    Wow you guys have this down to a science. When I play for practice I'm usually at around 95% proficiency on DDB...there still are a few hands that stump me. I like the STP, I play that on videopoker.com and thought I would try it out in the casino. Like I said I always plan to but never do. Maybe I'll check the pay tables at ur local when we visit there next weekend and see how it goes. I've seen regular one hand VP machines but I don't know if they have the different varieties .
     
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  14. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    95% proficiency can be improved on obviously, but the much more important stat is the percentage of return you lost due to errors. Here, all errors are weighted by how much they cost you in the long run. At 9/5 DDB, for example, holding KK only (correct KK44) on a hand like KcKd4h4s6d is a much bigger relative error (13.87%) than holding KJ offsuit (correct Ace) on AdKcJh8h6d, which is only a 1.09% relative error. So when considering errors by return, these bigger errors will be weighted appropriately. If you lose more than 1% return overall due to errors, you really should practice more. Preferably you would want at least a 99.5% accuracy based on return. So in that case, your actual return on 9/5 DDB would be expected to be at least 99.5% x 97.87% = 97.38%.

    The "Wizard of Odds" trainer keeps track of errors by return value, paytables are also adjustable:

    http://wizardofodds.com/play/video-poker/

    And when you mean your "local casino", you mean Oklahoma or Louisiana right? Texas doesn't allow standard "Class III" video poker at Indian casinos. If video poker bothers to exist in Texas, don't play it. It's a more boring form of a slot machine, skill does not matter.
     
  15. wrxrob

    wrxrob High-Roller

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    Here's my strategy.

    If I want to get liquored up at the bar, I play JoB, as that $20 bill will last a lot longer :beer:

    If I want to go for broke to get that big score, I go DDB.

    I never understood the allure of DDB UNTIL I hit that first premium quad. From then on, I was hooked.

    A nice middle-ground is "boner deluxe" a.k.a. Bonus Poker Deluxe. It only pays 1 for two pair, but it pays 80 for ALL quads, not just aces, 2s, 3s, and 4s.
     
  16. RIRugrat

    RIRugrat Low-Roller

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    As stated, the VP bars at 4Qs have 9/6 DDB progressives for quads at the quarter level so that puts the payout over 98.98%.

    Ironically the same 9/6 DDB VP game at higher levels ($0.50 and $1) do not have the progressives so the $0.25 game actually has a better return.

    My downtown VP routine for playing quarters (which I will be doing soon) is as follows:

    - For JoB, play at MSS Boar's Bar (9/6)
    - For DDB, play at 4Q bars (9/6 w/prog)
    - For DB, play 4Q standalones near Magnolia's (10/7 w/prog)
    - For BP, play at The D at the Vue Bar upstairs (8/5 w/prog)

    Chris
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  17. Buddha

    Buddha VIP Whale

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    I personally do not like to play DDB, with the negative swings due to the 2-pair even money pay-out. I prefer to play the more steady games like 9/6 JOB (99.54%) and 8/5 Bonus (99.17%) ... both of which have a higher pay-back than 9/6 DDB (98.98% , or less).

    "IF" I was to venture into the DDB game, I would go to either of the Fiesta casinos, or Boulder Station, or Green Valley Ranch, or Aliante. At those properties, you will be able to play 10/6 DDB (100+ %).
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  18. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Palms/Red Rock has 10/6 DDB (100.07%) too. Rio has 40/10/6 DDB (99.96%). Another problem with playing any 10/6 DDB game is they also will likely have reduced comp rates on them.
     
  19. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    I mean Oklahoma. I have seen the machines there but I haven't played them. They always seem popular tho! I have no idea what their payouts are.
     
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  20. robert m.

    robert m. High-Roller

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    I have played quarter 9/6 DDBP VP at the Winstar in Oklahoma.

    These machines are in the poker room area.

    Across the (huge) casino, there are more machines, including triple play, but they are all 9/5.
     
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