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Actual numbers - played vs comps

Discussion in 'Comps' started by ccs2a, Sep 17, 2014.

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  1. ccs2a

    ccs2a Tourist

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    Okay, I've been a lurker for a while and thought it would be nice to see what people's average bets are, and what they're getting in comps at different places.

    Hoping this will help some people out. Here are my actual numbers

    I usually play craps at around $500-$700 a roll (not counting odds), for four hours a day or so at casino's on the strip. I typically stay for two to three nights and bring a bankroll of about $10k. I probably have an average loss of around $2k each trip.

    That gets me a suite (usually multiple rooms), RFB, tickets to shows, spa appointments, etc... I basically pay for nothing except tips / shopping. I even called the day before a big concert a few months ago and got decent tickets to what I think was a sold out show.

    I do not get (have not asked) about any kind of loss rebate.

    For me, getting the kind of trip I get for an average of about $2k is simply amazing. There is no other vacation I could take where I'd be treated like a rock star (VIP checkin, line skipping, all food/alcohol included, limo service everywhere, direct line to a host who takes care of me, tickets to top rated shows / concerts) - for $2k.

    Curious as to what other people's hard numbers are for average bet, game played, comps received, etc...
     
  2. Gamesman

    Gamesman VIP Whale

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    Great thread and looking forward to the replies. I don't have much to contribute. I used to play BJ at $50 a hand and would get a free room.

    Now I play craps at about the same level as you, $500 to start and often more than $1,000 on a good shooter, although I am counting odds. I'm getting a suite for this coming weekend, nice to know there might be some other perks as well.

    Suites are a pretty wide range. I'm not sure which one I'll have yet but it'll be at PH.
     
  3. chonglosaxon

    chonglosaxon MIA

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    When the smoke clears my avg is usually 6-8 hrs a day at $2000 avg. This is at the property that I am staying at, I will play elsewhere a little bit but have really had no interest in getting rated until my next trip to try and trigger some different offers. Once you get to about the point you are at there is a huge gap into the next level of comps. For the most part, I get what you get and a few other things but not much more. To be honest, what else are they gonna give me? No airfare, rebates so I am in a sense in limbo. So for my next trip I am going to bet less at my home base and spread my pay out more and try and trigger some free pay from some other properties. I alsready get RFB, Suite (as nice a room as I want), rooms for others if needed, limo and incidentals. The only thing they dont cover for me is tips which is the next level.

    The only differences I see from what I get and what you are getting are an extra room if I need it and retail, I do get retail comps.
     
  4. ccs2a

    ccs2a Tourist

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    I agree, it seems like there's a sweet spot around $500 - $700 a hand range that will get you great comps / service. As you pointed out, it seems you have to dramatically raise your game to get much benefit past that. So, as with all things -- the law of diminishing returns seems to apply here.

    When I was doing $200 average bet, I would get a basic room comped, and a little bit of food. Potentially even a limo ride to/from airport, but that was far from certain. Going from $200 to $600 average bet really changed everything. My experience went from pretty fun, to now feeling like a mini VIP.

    Curious to see the responses from others as well for the level of play vs comps / benefits received.

    Keep the info coming ;)
     
  5. chonglosaxon

    chonglosaxon MIA

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    The next jump comes just below the 5 figure bet level. Then you are talking about rebates, airfare and other top level comps. $500-4500 or so all seems to be the same and I have had this discussion with probably 4 hosts at different properties on trips. I am completely comfortable with what I get and agree for the entertainment and my W/L record its a great deal for me. Anywhere else, my trip would cost me 10-12k.
     
  6. fas87

    fas87 Tourist

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    I play $200 average blackjack for 4 hours per day plus a little baccarat and craps thrown in. I get a room - maybe fountain room at Bellagio or Tower room at Mirage - plus some but not all food (more if staying at Mirage than Bellagio). I am typically satisfied that I receive ROUGHLY 40% of theo. When I played at a $100 level, I got a basic room with no food unless I lost a lot and 10% of my losses was higher than comps based on my theo.

    I think I'm just a terrible player or unlucky...my average bet is only a third of ccs2a's average, yet I usually bring double the bankroll to give myself a fairly low risk of ruin, and I often experience losses in the $5k range over 3 days. Maybe I need to switch games to craps, although I would definitely sweat $500 plus odds on a roll with only $20k bankroll (three numbers with double odds would be roughly $4,500 on the table at a time, right?).

    Very interesting comments about the big difference in comps from $200 to $500 average bet and the limited incremental comps between $500 and $4500 average bets.
     
  7. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I don't think you're terrible or unlucky, I think you're normal and the OP is just really lucky or massaging his numbers. Playing $500-$700 per roll not including odds for 4 hours per day on a bankroll of only 10k with average losses of only 2k per trip is flat out lucky. I don't really play craps so have a hard time gauging what the proper bankroll should be but I think I'd want to bring around 5x that amount at least.
     
  8. chonglosaxon

    chonglosaxon MIA

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    Agree, when I used to bet at that level, I had a 25k bankroll and it was either fiest or famine when it cam to craps. I would buy in at 5k, when I got to 15k i walked and obviously when I busted,
     
  9. newmans

    newmans VIP Whale

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    I was thinking the same thing....that the OP is very lucky. My average bet is smaller, my losses are definitely higher. I play pass line with full odd and inside to start and buy the 4 and 10. I might also have a couple of come bets with full odds as well. i press as I go. My bank roll is up to 10k. If I had losses of only 2k per trip, I'd be there twice as much.
     
  10. Gamesman

    Gamesman VIP Whale

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    I think he meant $500 on the table at a time.
     
  11. Ty

    Ty ?

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    "although I would definitely sweat $500 plus odds on a roll with only $20k bankroll (three numbers with double odds would be roughly $4,500 on the table at a time, right?)"

    $500 on three numbers = $1,500
    $1000 odds bet on each number = $3000
    Total = $4500
     
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  12. Gamesman

    Gamesman VIP Whale

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    I thought he was referring to the amounts in the OP, $500-$700 per roll not counting odds.
     
  13. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    There is too much variance in my play to give a definitive answer to the original question. My average bets varies from $500 to $4000, depending on the trip. Some trips I play as little as two hours a day. Other trips I play closer to ten hours a day. Plus, I play different games with different HA on different trips. So I don't think there is any way to answer definitively.

    I do, however, disagree with one of the comments above that suggested there is not much difference between betting $500 and $4500. I think the posts indicating that the difference are only incremental once you start betting four figures is a little more accurate. But its still not the same. The big comp differences I noticed when I started playing four figures a wager rather than three figures was that you get a nicer comped room (there are big differences between the various comped rooms and suites), I can get comps for my friends as well (rooms and food), and the hosts seem more likely to help out with some of the non-standard requests (making sure you can get a comped pool cabana, even on a big party weekend; or reserved seats in a sportsbook, etc.). I wasn't getting those kinds of comps when I bet $500 a hand. Now, I can get the skysuites, primo table in a club, or reserved seats in a sportsbook when I want them.

    Plus, as other members have written on this Board in the past, your historical play/credit line can qualify you for other perks that aren't available to other players, such as party invites and events. I laughed earlier this summer when one of my hosts invited me to go on a fishing trip at some exclusive fishing area. I laughed because I guess he thinks all of us from the south are big fishermen! I told him thanks and said I would rather have the good seat in the sportsbook instead, lol
     
  14. fas87

    fas87 Tourist

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    Just looked at this again...yeah, he meant $500 - $700 per roll, excluding odds. I just misread the original post and took it to mean $500 - $700 per number. I would still be a little uneasy at $1,500 - $2,100 per roll (at double odds) with a $20k bankroll, but I don't play craps enough to gauge how quickly that money can evaporate relative to blackjack. I know that odds have zero HA, but I only have a limited bankroll to weather the variance. I only get to LV once a year and need my gambling budget to last the entire time!
     
  15. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    I play mostly craps and betting place bets of $150 ea 6/8 and $100 ea 5/9 gets you a $500 average.
    That was approximately my rated average last couple trips.
    My host told me craps does have a slightly higher theo than BJ for the same average and time.

    If the OP is stating his average and bankroll accurately , he is way undercapitalized and very,very lucky!!
    At $500-$700 on the table it is easy to burn through $10K in a couple hours at cold tables. Unfortunately, I've done it.
    The comps will be property specific. At Luxor maybe a big suite rfb.At Aria or Bellagio regular room maybe rfb or base suite with several hundred dollars resort credit.

    I think UK is 100% right.
    Betting $500 is not close to $4K plus per hand.
    A good friend who has been on several trips with me has over a $2K average and he gets an entirely different level of comps than me.
     
  16. Packer

    Packer VIP Whale

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    +1 Totally agree with you on this one UK. At 500 a hand 4 hours a day you are getting all rooms, food and beverage comped. You can get limo service and show tickets. However jumping up to over 1000 I feel is the next level. Concerts, golf stuff like that. I feel from experience the next level is 2500 a hand. That gets you 2500 sq ft and suites, trips and so on. I was flown to LA from Vegas for a Dodger game! I feel the next jump is 5k a hand where that gets you the villas and anything you want.
    Op playing 700 a hand and having a 10k bank roll? Well he is lucky not to lose wayyyy more than 2k. 500 to 700 a hand for four hours at craps, take it form me you will lose 10k easy. The variance will kill you. When I play at 2500 without doey/don't and I use a 75k line with 25k in front money and that's not enough. I do have a stop loss for myself wayyyyy before I get to that amount but that's what you need to play 2500 a hand at craps. With Doey/don't same avg the way I wager. I will be using 30k of my line. You generate sooo much theo at those levels and fast. Bottom line, The sweet spot is anything over 1000 and you are getting well taken care of. .
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  17. chonglosaxon

    chonglosaxon MIA

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    Thats where I could really care less, a bigger room once your at a certain point, does nothing but eat away the comps. I would rather have a nice suite, table/bottle service and dinner paid for that a monstrous suite eating my comps away.

    If I am going to get 6-10k in comps, I prefer to only have around 2 k going to the room, then the rest I can use as I wish.
     
  18. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    My avg bet, bankroll, and avg loss is very similar to yours. My losses are usually a couple thousand more than yours, but I play mostly carnival pit games, like UTH.

    For mlife props, I get the following upfront comps... room, some resort credit, and concert/event tix. More recently, I have been getting basic suite comp offers from all the properties, but I am not sure if those are becoming the norm for me, or just phishing offers to see if I will increase my risk.
     
  19. ccs2a

    ccs2a Tourist

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    I guess I should clarify a little as to why I can play for 10 to 12 hours (3 to 4 hours per day), use a $10k bankroll with $700 on the table without the variance killing me too much. Basically, I lay the 4/10 @ $250 a piece, which puts me at $500. Then, I place $50 to $120 on the other numbers, which puts me over $700. I usually run the don't with relatively small amounts ($150 odds or such), but again, I don't count the odds.

    So, $500 on the lays, plus $200 or so on the places puts me over $700 avg per roll. So, no single number can knock me out. If I 7 out on the first roll, I still gain a little money. Obviously, landing a 4 or 10 hurts, but still, much less than rolling a 7 with everything on the 'Do' side.

    Good scenarios for me:
    Hit some box numbers (not a 4 or 10), then a 7. So, I make my money on some boxes, then get paid on the 4/10 and "don't" line to cover the other places + extra.
    Hot streak, where I can keep pressing my place numbers. Even having some points hit against my don't is okay since the long play usually gets me a bit ahead. On a really hot streak, after the 4 and 10 get knocked out, I'll even start slowly placing them and pressing them a bit as they hit.

    Okay scenarios
    7 out on first roll. Usually make $60 or so
    Few box numbers, few points - which cancel each other out since I've got about an equal amount on the don't line with odds as the place number

    Bad Scenario
    roll a 4 and 10, then point. While it happens, it's rare, and it's no worse than simply hitting a single 7 on the first roll if I was a full "Do" player
    roll a 4 or 10, then roll a 7 with no box numbers

    Obviously, there's a bit more to it than that, but that strategy lets me play relatively large amounts on the table, with surprisingly small variance. It was with that strategy that I was up $5k in 4 hours, but again, I did lose all those winnings back in the next 9 hours of play.

    I came up with that strategy because I got tired of watching my entire lot of chips on the table get wiped away on a seven out first roll. I watched a table (that I was playing at) 7 out on the first roll six times in a row.... After that, I decided I wanted a strategy that would allow for that. So, this is what I came up with. A huge side benefit is that it gets me a large amount of additional comps that I wasn't getting before.

    I'm not "massaging" my loss numbers. Here are the results of my sessions:

    Loss $300
    Loss $3,200
    Won $1,700
    Loss $2,600
    Loss $4,000 (though this loss was with me playing a lot crazier - i.e. $500 to $1000 on the don't line every so often, etc...)

    The actual average from above is a loss of $1,680 per trip, but I rounded to $2k for simplicity sake. It includes my trips to Vegas and Tunica.
     
  20. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    I don't know how you can avg $500 to 700 per roll on craps and just lose an avg of $2000/trip. I avg around $125-150 and my avg losses are close to that and sometimes a lot more. I am happy for you if you can.:thumbsup:
     
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