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A few comments on my recent visit.

Discussion in 'Downtown Hotels & Casinos' started by merlin, Sep 2, 2012.

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  1. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Just returned on Sept. 1st from a 3 day trip, stayed at the el-cortez(tower rooms).
    Overall I'd say things are a little busier than my other recent trips, decent crowds everywhere. I play BJ with some video poker tossed in, I'll break down my comments by casino.

    El-cortez - enjoyed my stay, place seemed busy, service very good all around, hotel allowed me to check in at 11 am which was a big surprise, ate several meals in the cafe with pretty quick service. The BJ dealers were hit and miss, with one being downright rude, I'm not sure what the problem is but the dealers really seem to want you to lose(sweat the action). had many losing sessions and one time I played a long time(tipped plenty) and ran my $100 buyin up to $200 and the dealer commented that "you're so lucky". Had one very lucky moment where I sat down at a keno machine (to slow down during a bad run) and hit a $1250 jackpot hitting 7 out of 8 on 75 cent, maybe 5 spins in...whoo hoo! Overall a very good rating.

    The new D - pretty busy, the music playing gave it a lively vibe, nice tv's all over, they only had maybe 1 decent BJ table during the day(2 deck hand shuffled), the rest were either big shoes or continuous shufflers. Overall a big improvement over the Fitz.

    4 queens - seemed slower than in the past, only one decent BJ table, sparse players, especially early in the day.

    fremont - seemed to be packed all the time, fun atmosphere. Had one interesting experience where a guy came in next to me, bought in for $100, and I said "do you ever feel like betting it all on the first hand", he said not really and then I said "I will if you will"(can you tell I'd been drinking) he said OK and put all $100 in the spot, i said "wow...ok" and put all $155 of my chips in the circle, dealer showed a 10 and I drew 2 cards to 19, he busted, and the dealer ended up with 18, I felt like a jerk for suggesting it, but he said he didnt mind.

    Binions - pretty sad, very empty all the time, machines are spaced far apart like on the strip with almost no one playing them, cant play BJ anywhere in the place, 6/5 all over, only place downtown where I never bet a dime. Been that way for years now, dont know how they make it?

    Nugget - seemed packed all the time, had better Bj conditions than last time, played a good 3/2, $10 , 2 deck table, I think three were 2 or 3 in the place.

    Golden gate - busy in the evening, the dancing dealers are all over the place now, forced to play their 6 deck shoes, but had a good time, quick drink service as well.

    LVC - dead, dead and dead...almost no machine players, I played BJ there and was the only person playing any game, they had maybe 6 tables open, talk about sad.

    Plaza - very dead most of the time, almost no table players, bought in at a Bj table with $100 said hello, and the mexican dealer (carlos) never said one word the whole session...not exactly a goodwill ambassador...never went back. The Plaza will not make it without changes.

    Main st and the Cal - what can you say, Hawaiins are fun, they just are, plenty of action , played late at night with a table full of hawaiins and one started calling me Mr Blackjack, I said "you wouldnt call me that if you watched me all week", the next hand I BJ'ed, when I left the pit boss called out "see you Mr blackjack", very fun places.

    Gold Spike - no players at all, played alone, poor conditions(continuous shufflers at empty tables, sexy dealers all dolled up for nothing, counted 4 people playing machines other than at the bar. Pit boss in denial when I said they need to improve things if they want to compete, said "It's just a little slow" Next day, and next it was still slow, and I was still the only player. Kinda depressing, they wont make it.
     
  2. liteman

    liteman Old Timer

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    I was downtown from the 24th thru the 27th. I stayed at MSS. Couldn't win anywhere. I blame my luck or "karma". El Co played roulette and have never encountered such a rude dealer as her. She was mean to everyone and finally we all left her alone. Always have a good time at G G. Very fun playing blackjack at Cal. Yes, the Hawians are fun. I find most people downtown more fun overall than anywhere else. Binions is sadly depressed and depressing. Plaza is always dead. I will stay downtown next time.
     
  3. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    I had the one rude dealer at the El, although most of the rest were pretty clearly rooting against the players. Had one terrible woman dealer at the 4Q, i was winning and she got more and more pissed, I actually said "did i do something wrong, I'm tipping you", she said "lets just deal the cards". I never said another word, won some more and left(No more tips either). other than that most of the dealers were ok, I dont expect them to be rooting machines, just that they try to make it fairly pleasant.


    At binions even the cowgirl dealer tables were fairly dead, last time it was full of tourists throwing their money away at 6/5, while steps away were decent games.
     
  4. theshaah

    theshaah Low-Roller

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    Merlin:

    The above statement always puzzles me. I guess people don't even look at the rules or what kind of game it is before they sit down.

    WHY would you play at a 6/5 table when a 3/2 table is right next to it???
     
  5. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    Nice going on the Keno win!:thumbsup:
     
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  6. KKB

    KKB VIP Whale

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    Interesting points of view...

    We always have a blast at Binions--LOVE the machines aren't packed in!

    Weird about the Fremont--can't stand that place, just too crowded.

    Love the Nugget, but hate how packed in it is there, too.
     
  7. luvlv

    luvlv Low-Roller

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    These are my thoughts exactly. We are staying at the Nugget this time for the first time, so may spend a little more time there. Usually when I'm downtown, I spend most of my time at Binions. They have most of the slots I like and it's usually not crowded. I also have luck there most of the time.
     
  8. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Because on average, your $5 blackjack player simply doesn't know the difference.
     
  9. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Well, that doesn't make it any less puzzling.

    What? Because they only bet $5.00 does it mean that they have less regard for their money? Did they have to work less hard to get their $5.00?

    I'd even argue that the reverse should be true! I'm a "low-roller" and realize that I have to get the very most out of every one of my limited gambling dollars.

    You'd think that people who have to work the hardest to earn their money would work the hardest to get the most gamble out of their money.

    Of course, the members of this forum know that this isn't the case by a long shot. The lack of value that people get for their gambling dollar is simply astonishing - and show no signs of getting any better!

    I can only imagine that a casino owner coined the prase "Easy come. Easy go."

    Brother, it doesn't come easy and it shouldn't go easy.
     
    NFL Divisional Playoffs!!
  10. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    You missed my point. I didn't say your good $5 blackjack player, I said your average $5 blackjack player, and for the most part I'm not talking about people who are reading this forum, because if you're reading, you care.

    Let me give you an example from a party I went to last night. I was talking to someone who knew I just got back from Vegas. That person said that they went to Vegas once. Now this person has money, and stayed at the MGM in a suite. She and her husband's gambling budget for the trip was $25. It was the first and only time they ever gambled at all. So for this kind of tourist, if they sit down to play blackjack, do you think they even know that there are different sets of rules? Or what the rules mean?

    Saturday I played at a $5 blackjack table at the Monte Carlo where a guy was hitting 14 against a dealer 5, because he was worried that the dealer's 15 might beat his 14.

    So true low rollers are going to look for the rules. But there are tons and tons of 'no rollers' out there.
     
  11. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    Cleavage and tits and gorgeous girls. You know us guys, we have 2 heads and when the "other" head does the thinking all logic is thrown out the window.

    Guess that's why many of the casinos brought in the "dealertainers", even the spike has em on the bj tables.

    Many of us will only play 3/2 games and skip the 6/5 tables but others like the view and so will play on those tables even though the odds aren't good.

    I agree with most of you, places like MSS, Fremont and the Cal don't need those kind of hooks to bring in the hawaiian crowd. We just enjoy the atmosphere at the boyd casinos better. Boyd really made a killing by going after the hawaiian crowd years ago. Since Hawaii has no legalized gambling many go to vegas to get their gambling fix.
     
  12. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    The other thing to take into consideration is that at $5 blackjack, the difference between 3:2 and 6:5 is somewhat negligible. About 7 cents a hand. So say you play for an hour and a half at a fairly average (ie: slow) $5 table. Your difference in expected outcome is just about $7 total. Round it off and you're talking about 1 bet an hour.

    I'm not advocating 6:5 blackjack. I won't play it. So don't flame me. I'm just saying that if you're a tourist and you're only going to play a little bit, it just doesn't matter that much to your bankroll. If I was going to play an hour of $5 blackjack, it wouldn't be worth a cab ride to another casino to find better rules.

    Also, at the exact same time, a lot of the 6:5 is single deck, which gives half a percent back to the player, at which point the difference drops to just 5 cents a hand vs 3:2 BJ at a 6 deck table.

    A lot of people get really emotional about things without understanding how little money we're really talking about.
     
  13. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Well, you have a good point. I guess I just don't understand the "no roller" mentality. And just because it exists dosen't mean that we have to like it.

    I mean, the same people who will move heaven and earth to save a buck in their own home towns just don't seem to give a darn about the same money in a Las Vegas casino. Isn't it the same money?

    They'll charge things on a certain credit card to accumulate "miles" to fly to Las Vegas, but when there, they'll take the same money they schemed so diligently to save and gamble it on a game that they have no understanding of!

    You and I have both been at tables where players will come up and say something like "I've never played this game before and have no idea what the rules are." They proceed to bring into play a sum equal to what we have had to work the better part of a week to earn and proceed to make bonehead moves until their money is gone. And it usually dosen't take all that long.

    They'll then leave the table and pass by the hotel gift shop on the way to the airport. That gift shop has a $5.00 book on basic rules and strategy that would have either saved or made them money, or at the very least given them a decent shot at the game that they had so little regard for - had they spent 10 minutes actually reading it before they put their money at risk.

    When they get back to their home town and their place of business, these same people will no doubt (and wisely, I might add) scrutinize that business for waste and inefficieincies and then call their employees to task for "wasting the company's money!"

    They're not, by any means, "no workers." But they are "no rollers."

    And Las Vegas is supposed to be fun!

    I just think it's a lot more fun to take the money that you have specified for gambling and meet the challenge of the casinos head on with the best strategy, the most disciplined money mangement and the most dogged persistence that you can. And should things go your way, you'll be able to enjoy the fruits of your knowledge and disciplne while the casino has to win it back $5, $10, or $25 bucks at a time.

    Should things go against you? Well, you'll at least have the pleasure of knowing that the house beat it out of you the hard way!
     
    NFL Divisional Playoffs!!
  14. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    I think you're looking at it wrong. Those people are your friends! If people didn't gamble poorly and everyone was good, to make the same money casinos couldn't offer the same comps and couldn't offer the same rules. So be glad there are people who will play 6-5 blackjack. There's more likely to be an open seat for you at a 3:2 table. The bad gamblers subsidize the better ones, which allows the better ones to take better advantage of the system.

    Capitalism. It can be your friend.
     
  15. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Darn, Mike_m235!

    Another good point!

    I give up!

    It's sort of like my son mentioned the last time we shot craps. He said,"Dad. If everyone played like we do, they wouldn't have these nice hotels. We'd be playing in a tent, or something."
     
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  16. mraudit

    mraudit Low-Roller

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    Bazzito I have no idea what statements you are trying to make. Your last post really confused me. I am an avid craps player, and have been playing for over 25 years. I would like to know what system you and your son use that if everyone else used, there would be no big hotels, just tents. I am always looking for ideas.

    Also, why are you getting worked up about how people spend their money in Vegas? I go with an amount each trip, if I loose it all, oh well I had fun. Who cares how I spend it. Everyone can do what they want with their cash. As long as there are games with good odds, let others play the carny games. Hell, if it looks like fun, I will join in!!

    Send me the basics of your craps strategy!!

    Tim
     
  17. theshaah

    theshaah Low-Roller

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    What frosts my cookies is that they take a game that is ALREADY favored to pay the house and tweak the numbers so that it pays that much MORE to the HOUSE. The house edge is already against you. You like to say oh it's such a small ammount of money. Like 7 dollars in an hour. Now take that 7 dollars times 20 million people (Assuming half the people who come to vegas gamble) thats 140 million dollars. Not that much money? Seems like a lot of money to me.
     
  18. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Sure, mraudit;

    Its "The Dice Doctor" by Sam Grafstein:

    http://www.gamblersbookclub.com/Book/Craps_Books/Books/5050-THE_DICE_DOCTOR_-_REVISE

    I highly recommend Sam's methods. No matter how you like to play, I'm sure that following his methods will increase your profits (should there be any) and decrease your losses (Heaven Forbid such a thing should happen!)

    Just like the author, I can't guarantee you a single winning bet, but I will guarantee you that if you use "The Dice Doctor's Betting Rules for the Right Bettor" and increase your wagers according to his progressive betting chart, that you will win - as a percentage of your starting bankroll- more than any other player at the table. Similarly, if you use "The Dice Doctor's Betting Rules for the Right Bettor" and decrease your wagers to the minimum, as determined by your total betting stake as he suggests, the you will lose -as a percentage of your starting bankroll- less than any ohter player at the table. Can we really expect any more than that?

    Wait! There's more!

    He also has methods to maximize wins and minimize losses for every type of bet on the crap table, whether he would make them himself, or not. You simply can't ask for more than that from a book on craps!

    And go ahead and ask a boxman or floorman what their definition of a "tough player" is. They will describe, almost to a move, exactly what Sam Grafstein so ably explains in this volume.

    I'll even give you a money-back guarantee! If you buy "The Dice Doctor," follow Sam Grafstein's methods exactly for your chosen method of play, and then don't think that it has improved you play, send me a private message, and I'll personally refund your money. I don't think that you'll find a better offer than that.

    I've given this book, in each of its four editions, to both friends and casual acquaintences over the years and every single one of them has thanked me for it.

    And I didn't mean to get so worked up over how other people gamble their money in Las Vegas. It's just that it's so very difficult to prevail against even the minimal house edge of the pass line + odds that I just bristle at giving the house an extra edge - something that players do all the time.

    They are certainly entitled to spend or gamble their money any way they want, as are you and I. But with just a couple of adjustments to the bets they make, the manner in which they increase or decrease their bet amounts, a few other simple changes, they could give themselves a chance enjoy their time at the table even more.

    Can I help it if I care? :cry:

    Anyway, my offer stands. Buy it. Try it. I think you'll like it!
     
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  19. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    $7 matters, and it's prob a lot more since hardly anyone flat bets consistently.
    The bottom line is that those $7 hours add up, even for a $5 bettor it could easily end up to a couple hundred during a 3 day trip. Playing 6/5 when 3/2 is easily available would be like playing roulette with 4 zero's, or playing an easily labeled slot that says 70% payback, when a 90% is right next to it.

    This last trip I think my biggest BJ was on a $45 bet, that would be a $13.50 difference on that one hand, about what I spend for dinner.
     
  20. FullPay

    FullPay High-Roller

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    Anyone that knows video poker knows that the gambling dollar is getting less sophisticated, not more. Many players don't know what to look for in a decent pay table, and with each casino re-model the pay tables always go down as the new manager seeks to squeeze more out of that buck. And walk through the multitude of Harrah's HET properties and the bar top machines all have identical player-unfriendly tables.

    I blame less competition among the casinos and a new definition of the "Las Vegas Experience" among the younger visitors. The new paradigm is spend, spend, spend; and not at the tables. The idea of a property getting dollars from offering fair odds, inexpensive food and lodging is in its last retreat downtown; the change is coming though. I say enjoy it while it lasts!
     
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