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A downtown experiment!

Discussion in 'Downtown Hotels & Casinos' started by theshaah, Sep 25, 2012.

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  1. theshaah

    theshaah Low-Roller

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    Bear with me here because this is only an idea in my head and one that I'm sure could work if it was pulled off the right way.

    All the casinos nowadays tend to have rules that push the house edge in their favor alot more than they did 20 years ago. With the proliferation of 6/5 black jack and the restriction of splitting, and doubling down and so on. I figure here is a chance for Tamares to redeem themselves with gamblers.

    What if they took a closed casino such as The Western which is still standing but collecting dust, and reopen in with a slight remodel. Enough to clear the vomit smell out of the place and offer totally fair games with no 6/5 payouts from the 5 dollar level all the way to the max bet. which pays 3/2 allows DAS etc. then allows you to 100 x odds on craps and machines with reasonable full pay payouts on video poker along with some traditional slots. Not the new ones that are everywhere....but some of the more traditional ones like texas tea, and such.

    The joint is very small and shouldn't require many people to run the place. See what happens. With rules like that sure they're going to have advantage players out the wazoo but sometimes it's these same advantage players who end up adding to a casinos bottom line. They could offer comps to some of their other properties to start out with, and then if they made enough money they could rebuild their clientele and possibly rebuild/renovate their rooms kind of like elco did with ogden house.

    Does anyone see this being feasable? I think it would be an interesting experiment. I know I'd play there.
     
  2. theshaah

    theshaah Low-Roller

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    My point behind this post being that a casino full of tables playing at a fair table is alot better than a casino full of empty tables because the limits are too high or the payouts are shorted.

    Gold spike could pull this off too if they played a fair game. and got TITO.
     
  3. aliasyoshi

    aliasyoshi Low-Roller

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    Anything that brings the ol' Western back is fine in my book. :thumbsup:
     
  4. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    I have heard of something like this before.

    keep talking about how good the economy is and it will eventually be good.

    sad to report that in reality the place will just attract the same old down and outers that it had there before only now the casino will be paying them more money to play there and drink all their booze.

    What if the made a place like your scenario but charged an entrance fee? like $5 or $2 or something like that?

    I think that would get real gamblers interested in actually going there and keep the scum bags out to some degree.
     
  5. AndyAkeko

    AndyAkeko Time magazine's 2006 Person of the Year

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    I remember reading somewhere that Stupak tried something like that with his Vegas World when it first opened, and he lost money hand over fist to the advantage players.
     
  6. xmarksx

    xmarksx VIP Whale

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    A little like the locals casinos of old. My only question would be why have the full pay payouts on video poker (sorry, not an expert in VP, I assume that it has the possibility of being a positive expectation game)? If you are cutting your house vig to the bone, why have a positive expectation machine?
     
  7. chitownjohn

    chitownjohn High-Roller

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    I like the idea but it seems to come down to the cost of labor. It takes a lot of cash to train dealers and retain them with decent wages and benefits. The cost of health care alone is one reason that casinos are constantly looking to replace people with automation.

    The bottom line is the casino profit margin is too low on the $5 games with 3/2 odds. I'm not saying it wouldn't work but they would need a really good marketing plan to keep the tables full.
     
  8. FullPay

    FullPay High-Roller

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    As to replacing people with automation, casinos used to hate the 'big wheel'. Nobody really played it for more than a few spins, the casino had to pay someone to man it, but customers demanded it be on premises. Well Binion's finally came up with an automated 'big wheel'. I spun it once for yuks, but this kind of thinking is why the old ways will never work again. Not only have they eliminated a person from the pay roll, they are asking the bettor to stare at a motorized wheel driven by a computer chip. The days of the casino boss have been replaced by spreadsheets; read 'em and weep.
     
  9. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    Just think how many people it took to build that machine and to desgin it and maintain it. Those are many more higher paying, higher skill level jobs then just some guy who spins it once in a while and takes your dollar.
     
  10. Oxygenator

    Oxygenator Low-Roller

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    With the exception of the craps game, what the OP is suggesting is almost like what the Western was when Jackie owned it. Great Blackjack rules, I used to play there a lot. Even up until the day it closed it had really good Video poker, and I always had great luck on the Slots. I would always have way more coupons for the diner than I could handle from spinning the Prize wheel for a suited blackjack.

    And the people watching was second to none.
     
  11. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    The biggest issue with this experiment is: you see a problem where one does not exist... or at least it doesn't exist to the people that matter or have the ability to see it through.

    First off, even if you dress the place up a little its still going to be a dinky danky casino that's not going to attract the people with money... the only ones who will go there are going to be bottom feeders, advantage players and deadbeats - and that is not the crowd you can make money off of.

    And the reason I say it is a problem that doesn't exist: go to Las Vegas and take a look around... go with the almost 40 million other people each year... look at all the 6/5 blackjack tables that are full almost every night.

    Now sure, you don't like 6/5 blackjack and maybe you never play it, but your protests don't mean anything to the casino because for every one of you that will never play the game, there are so many who will.

    And in all this you are really assuming that all this is profitable. A full 3/2 blackjack table with the best rules for the player at the $5 level is only going to make about $10-11 per hour... thats before the salaries of the dealers, pit boss, taxes, employee benefits, property taxes, utility bills, costs of security staff, depreciation of furniture and equipment, etc, etc, etc.

    The places that do these super cheap table games usually have only a couple of tables devoted to these games and they operate under the assumption that the blackjack player is going to bring a slot or VP player along with them where they can make some profit, which in your casino isn't going to happen because all the slots and VP are going to be dialed back as well.
     
  12. dmr

    dmr Registered Abuser

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    Shhhh!

    Don't give the casino executives any ideas! :)
     
  13. FullPay

    FullPay High-Roller

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    Or charge a resort fee for the privilege of leaving your room?
     
  14. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    One of the Reasons I Love Downtown...

    ...is the ability to find a reasonable low-limit blackjack table with ease.

    Think about it - at just the Boyd properties, there are multiple $5 & $10 minimum, two-deck games available 24/7... the price for that? Giving up DAS.

    I'm ok with that... when I feel like I just 'must' have DAS, I stroll over to the El-Co or I play the 2-deck shoe at the Plaza, and the six-deck shoe at theD or Golden Gate.

    Your idea could work on the Strip if it were mixed up with the "tourist tables" that generate so much profit for the house.

    Let's face it - if Harrah's had 4 or 5 two-deck 3:2 tables that permitted DAS, and kept all of the rest of their tables as they are now, they would draw the better blackjack players to their hotel, and the other tables would stay just a full as they are now... in fact, I can recall many times when I've walked into a casino to see 2 or 3 $5-min. six-deck shoe tables packed with players, while the $10 two-deck with DAS was empty!

    Seems like many casinos already do that same sort of thing with their VP... a few full-pays and a ton of others machines that are not. Seems like most casual VP players never even look at the pay-tables - & the casinos love those guys!
    We should too, as without them we might not ever be able to find a decent machine or a decent blackjack table.

    I despise 6:5 and wish it would disappear forever (or least be prohibited from calling the game "blackjack"). But although I hate the game, nobody forces me to play it...so, if others want to, we shouldn't care - as long as we still have decent games available to us.
     
    Finally have the room booked! Look for me Feb 21-23
  15. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    I agree with the poster above...6/5 should not be allowed to be called blackjack.
     
  16. keno60

    keno60 VIP Whale

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    How did they make money in years past when 3:2 was prevalent and there was even more employee's?
     
  17. xmarksx

    xmarksx VIP Whale

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    Keno I agree, it is still a negative expectation game at 3:2.
     
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