1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

A Definitive Review Of Blackjack At The Fremont.

Discussion in 'Downtown Hotels & Casinos' started by Droyus, Mar 22, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Droyus

    Droyus Tourist

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    San Diego
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    75
    It doesn't get more fresh than this. I've just returned to my room at the Fremont after reviewing all of their open blackjack tables.

    Their variations of payback, bet minimum and deck size were all over the map. I found 8 different variations, and in many cases the crappy games were right next to the better games. Most players simply don't know the difference. The only common thread between these games was that the dealer hits on S17.

    Here they are:

    $5 Shoe - 3/2
    $5 Shoe - 6/5
    $3 Constant Shuffler - 6/5
    $10 Constant Shuffler - 6/5
    $5 2-Deck - 3/2
    $10 2-Deck - 6/5
    $10 2-Deck - 3/2
    $25 2-Deck - 3/2
     
  2. tominiowa

    tominiowa High-Roller

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    USA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    48
    similar to what I found. That casino maybe is experimenting for Boyd's. I agree it doesn't seem players really mind what they sit at.
    Too confusing for me. Plus I always feel so cramped in there

    Thanks for the input and verification, some people were in disbelief when I first reported a boyd casino dealing a 6/5 game, glad it hasn't spread to MSS or the cal
     
  3. Drambler

    Drambler High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    Columbus OH
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    Thanks for watching this. Sad to see that 6-5 creeping in
     
  4. vegasvic

    vegasvic VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,526
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    45
    Sad that so many players are oblivious to variations in rules. I guess that's why the hold on blackjack is over 10%.
     
  5. northerngirl

    northerngirl Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    Thanks for such a detailed review of the tables. I go with the sisters and a son every year and we stay at the CAL. Our table play is 80 percent between the CAL and MSS. However, one night every trip my son and I have a tradition of a "Drunk Mother/Son Evening at The Fremont". I do love the vibe (if you can squeeze on a table) of the casino, however the tables are so close together. You certainly don't have the squeezed in like sardine feeling at the CAL or MSS.

    Thanks for being our BOYD roving reporter.
     
  6. LoveDowntownVegas

    LoveDowntownVegas Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    TX
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    34
    this = awesome!
     
    Futbol - final game
  7. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    Thanks for posting that...a sad day indeed when Boyd deals a two deck game at 6:5.
    :cry:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  8. DrGPadgett

    DrGPadgett Tourist

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Mississippi
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19
    I am definitely a Fremont Street guy, 2-3 times per year. I usually stay at El Cortez or Four Queens, and my play is mostly at El Cortez or Golden Gate.

    Even so, I regularly drop in at the Fremont, and I am always amazed at how they have more table-game players than anyone else. It is even busy on weekday mornings! I have wondered why they stay so busy at the tables, even in my comments here on VMB. This summary is helpful because we can see the offerings in detail, but it still doesn't explain the packed house...? B-Connected, maybe? Some match-play coupons I don't know about?

    In any case, very intereting discussion.

    Gene!
     
  9. bu$hman

    bu$hman Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Thank you for the input. Now, for a follow-up question: What might the rules be, if you were able to determine, on the "good" games? Double any two cards; Double after splits, etc. I would only care about the 3/2 games, if you have that info. Please and thanks.
     
  10. Droyus

    Droyus Tourist

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    San Diego
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    75
    Not only that, but they were dealing 6:5 games right next to 3:2 tables with identical decks and minimums! Almost nobody understands (or cares about) those big glaring blackjack paybacks printed on the felt.

    I honestly think that Boyd is experimenting with public reaction to a gradual switch over to 6:5 blackjack tables. Fremont first, followed by their other properties. They want to know how much action each type of table gets, whether players favor one type of game over others or not, and how many complaints they receive.

    Anyone concerned enough to weigh in on this trend should lodge their complaints with the Fremont's management sooner rather than later, while they're still performing their little 6:5 experiment. Once they decide that they have enough data to justify a formal 6:5 switch-over, reversing it will be next to impossible.
     
  11. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    Trust me - I will let them know very clearly what I think of their little flirtation with 6:5.

    bushman - their 3:2 two deck pitch game is H17, double any two, No DAS. Those have also been the rules for the 3:2 6-deck shoe game they have at $3.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  12. bu$hman

    bu$hman Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Thank you. That is helpful. Normally play at the GN (no pitch games for me, too pricey) but like the favorable rules of DAS; double any two; resplit A's. Might have to check out the shoe game at the Fremont.
     
  13. Droyus

    Droyus Tourist

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    San Diego
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    75
    I just spoke with one of the pit critters in the Fremont blackjack pit about the house rules regarding splitting and doubling down. Here's what she told me:

    You can double down on your first 2 cards at any table. So if you want to double down on a 6, have a ball.

    You can re-split up to 3 times at any table.

    Only one of their tables allows DAS - their crappy "Super Fun 21" table. $10 minimum, 2 deck, blackjacks pay even money (except for diamond blackjacks which pay 2:1). It isn't much more than a carnival game.

    Most of their open tables are pretty busy tonight. Once again, there isn't any rhyme or reason to crowd distribution at the 3:2 or the 6:5 tables.
     
  14. gambler

    gambler VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,289
    Location:
    Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Thanks for keeping us updated Droyus. It's not a good sign for downtown.
     
  15. northerngirl

    northerngirl Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    Call me naive, but I have a hard time imagining that either the CAL or MSS would ever go to 6:5 blackjack on their double deck tables. My group plays 90 percent cards at these two properties. We have met many "regulars" from Hawaii who are seasoned card players. I would guess if these properties went to 6:5 tables, not only would there be an uproar, but they would lose many faithful customers.

    Ugh......it would be a really difficult if MSS and my CAL went to all 6:5 BJ tables. When I first started staying exclusively downtown in the early nineties, we stayed at Binion's and gave 99 percent of our play to them. Obviously, we haven't played their for years since the demise of their single deck 3:2 game. Occasionally, on principal, I have sat at a table only to see the 6:5 sign and say "think I will go down the street where I can play a good game at 3:2." Onviously, my dislike of the game hasn't helped to change the rules.

    Sad to say, as my group detests the invasion of 6:5 as much as anybody, we would probably have to bite the bullet, drink a little more vodka to numb the pain, and play. The sisters and I go annually meeting my Houston son and have an absolutely blast getting together once a year.

    It pains me to say that if this is the trend and there are only 6:5 tables in Vegas, we would begrudgingly play the game. Ouch....that was even painful to write.
     
  16. kingpasty

    kingpasty High-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    690
    Location:
    Wichita Falls, TX
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    It's always funny to me that people get so outraged about 6/5. Is it a worse bet? Absolutely. Should you get mad at everyone that plays it? I don't know, why don't you get mad at everyone you see playing bad pay tables at video poker? Exactly the same thing, but I never hear 1/10th of the outrage I do for 6/5 blackjack. Bottom line, even if it adds 2% house edge for the casino (and I don't think it's even that much), it's still a better bet than roulette, most carny games, and slots.
     
  17. northerngirl

    northerngirl Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    Personally, I don't get mad at the folks that play the 6:5 game...to each his own. We just know the game well enough and know we have other options downtown. I don't play video poker, roulette, and rarely slots. Being that our main game of choice is blackjack and we play it for nine straight days on a trip, the difference between the 3:2 and 6:5 makes a difference over the course of a weeks worth of play.
     
  18. kingpasty

    kingpasty High-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    690
    Location:
    Wichita Falls, TX
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    I completely agree and see where you're coming from. Look, I'm not going to play a 6:5 game if I can help it. But it cracks me up that people get soooooo mad about people playing them. It's not the end of the world people. Vegas is a business, and here's a news flash: all the games have a house edge (unless you're counting). I'm inclined to believe that a lot of the folks that get so outraged at the spread of 6:5 ARE counters. Bottom line casinos don't want you to play if you're an advantage player and I can totally understand that. Not saying that's the only reason for 6:5 games, just that counters definitely aren't going to play a 6:5 game.
     
  19. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    King...a 3:2 game played with proper basic strategy & a reasonably accurate count is beatable.
    Not so with a 6:5 game.

    My proposed solution is this: If ever a casino eliminates their 2-deck 3:2 games and replaces them with 6:5 - no tipping the dealer...ever. If I am "forced" to play that game, I will withhold tips.
    I probably tip about $10 an hour playing an average of $18 a hand at $10 blackjack tables...more if I win.
    If the house thinks it's ok to change the rules of the game specifically to deprive me of $15 an hour or so of blackjack payoffs (3/hour), I will change my tipping rules to offset 2/3 of it.

    Is it the dealers' fault? Of course not.
    Will I explain to the dealer what I am doing? Absolutely.

    The effect of 6:5 will be a $10 per hour cut in the dealers' tip pool & a $5 an hour cut in my blackjack payoffs... so that the casino can make an extra $15/hour from my bets.

    Well, that's what I would do, anyway.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  20. vegasvic

    vegasvic VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,526
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    45
    Sure it's no one's business if someone wants to play a 6:5 game instead of 3:2. It's their money. But if enough pigeons play 6:5 the 3:2 games will disappear. And THAT gets me mad.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.