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$900 Freeplay strategy - tips?

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by fatcam, May 30, 2012.

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  1. fatcam

    fatcam Newbie

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    Looking for a strategy to convert my $900 Freeplay into cash. 4-$100 chips and 1-$500 chip FYI. And you can keep betting a promo chip if you win. I'm not terribly familiar with craps, and obviously you can't hedge with blackjack, so this limits me to roulette or baccarat. I'm thinking baccarat is my best bet (no pun intended):

    $900 cash on banker
    $900 promo on player

    If banker wins, I win $900 *.95 = $855 + $900 initial bet and I walk net+$855.
    If player wins, I win $900 in chips and keep my promo chips and lose $900 cash and I bet again.

    $900 chips on banker
    $900 promo on player

    If banker wins, you win $900*.95 = $855 + $900 initial bet and I walk net +$855.
    If player wins, I win $900 in chips for a total of $1,800 in chips + I keep my $900 promo chips. At this point I am up net +$900 and can basically do whatever with the promo chips.

    Is there anything I'm overlooking?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    First thing would be if you are allowed to make offsetting bets or not. Its been a long time since I had promo chips from an MGM property but the last ones I had from Harrah's actually said I couldn't use them to make an offsetting bet.

    Second thing I am thinking is the value of the chips themselves. It all really depends on how much the $900 means to you - if it represents a lot of money and you don't feel comfortable betting in those denominations then maybe you are better off worrying about converting it to real money. If its not a lot of money to you and you regularly or occasionally play at the $100 level then I can't see why you wouldn't just add them to your bankroll and play them like you would normally.
     
  3. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    As long as these are 'play again if you win' type chips, they are effectively good as cash. I think your plan is good at the baccarat table. You might want to have someone help you by placing the opposing cash bet, avoiding the stink-eye if you try to play the opposing bets with cash/promo chips.

    In your second section you misstated what happens when player wins but I think you knew what really happens (see first section). You win $900 and lose $900 in real chips but you still have your promo chips in hand to do it again. You need the side with the regular chips bet to win to convert it to real cash. Don't put the promo chips on banker, as that could cost you the 5% commission over and over again with several banker wins.

    This is way better than red/black at roulette because you avoid the 0-00 where you lose both. With baccarat, a tie pushes both and you go again.

    If these were play once only chips, (when you lose OR win they take the promo chips away), then the offsetting idea doesn't help and you should probably just put them on banker. In that case, I'd make separate bets with the $500 and 4-$100 chips so I'd have a better chance of walking away with something and not lose it all.
     
  4. fatcam

    fatcam Newbie

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    Oh my bad - you're essentially "pushing" with a Player win until Banker wins and you cash out $855.

    Auggie - $900 doesn't mean a lot to me necessarily, but but a $25 BJ player (maybe $50 if I'm really feeling it). $100 and $500 chips don't have much of a place in my bankroll. If I can't make offsetting bets (though I've heard MGM allows it), I can always have a friend make an offsetting bet for me.

    Either way, I'd rather take the $855 and bankroll my $25 Blackjack than to use the 5 promo chips to bankroll it and pray I hit a lucky shoe.

    Cheers!
     
  5. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Are you looking for a fast way to do this?
    Why not a few bets on Red or Black or maybe put it all on 00. :beer:
     
  6. Groog

    Groog Low-Roller

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    The idea you have down is completely wrong. I have gone through this before trying to figure it out.

    The promo chips placed are a keep bet - meaning if you win, you keep the promo chips ie. $900 on player pays back $900 not $1800 like a normal bet.

    So your offsetting bets are a guaranteed lose since if banker wins you actually lose 5%.

    Scenario 1:
    $900 cash on player
    $900 promo on banker
    If player wins, you get your $900 back + $900 win. If banker wins you keep $855 ie lose $45

    Scenario 2:
    $450 chips on player
    $900 promo on banker
    If player wins you get $900. If banker wins you get $855 - 450 = $405

    I think you can figure out the opposite scenarios.

    The way to do it to guarantee a win is to play a 50% hedge bet and you win 50% of promo chips.

    Otherwise if you want to win the whole amount I'd place it on a pass line bet.
     
  7. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    If you get to keep the $900 promo chip, then it is just like a normal bet. You have $1,800 (900 and 900).

    BUT - if it is like some chips and they take it if you win or lose, then it is different.

    If they allow you to keep it to play again, then blackjack is as good as red/black etc on roulette.
     
  8. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Except in blackjack you run in to the problem if you are in a situation where you have to split or double your bet. Like what if dealt two aces? Have two 1/11s is alot better than having two 2/12s
     
  9. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    Sounds like you don't normally play table games or at those levels otherwise you would just play them during normal play.

    Have you asked if you can switch it to freeplay or maybe get lower denomination chips?
     
  10. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    you have it exactly right. $900 promos on player, $900 cash chips on banker. if player wins, you take the $900 chips they give you and put them on banker to replace the $900 chips you just lost. once banker wins, you take the $855 in chips they give you and walk away. just DON'T put the promos on banker and the cash on player. if you did it that way each time banker wins you'd be losing $45 and if banker won a bunch before player you'd give away all your profit.

    BTW, Groog's method is guaranteed to lose you half your money. why would you want to do that?
     
  11. Groog

    Groog Low-Roller

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    I think you are still mistaken. It's promo money it's not a regular bet. If you are NOT hedging you go up and place the $900 on player. If player wins, you walk away with $900 if banker wins you walk away with 0.

    A regular bet you put $900 on player and if player wins you walk away with $1800.

    You're saying with my scenario he has a guaranteed chance to lose half his money. OR you could look at it as he is guaranteed to win half his promo value vs a basically 50/50 chance of winning.

    If he hedges, he has 48% chance of winning money the way you guys are telling him to play. $900 promo on banker and $900 cash on player. Player wins he wins $900. Banker wins and he loses $45. My way. $450 on player - player wins, he wins $450, banker wins, he wins $405 - wins either way, not rocket science.

    The only thing that would make a difference is if these are promo chips that you can't actually keep, you can only play with them until you lose. I get these all the time, but most times I play roulette and spread them out. If he has 4 $100 chips and 1 $500 chip, I'd put 1 on even, one on black, one on high, etc. that way you may lose on 1 or 2 but win on the others.
     
  12. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    YEah, that was covered in the thread: he is talking an MGM property so they are "play until you lose" chips.

    When you say this part: "I think you are still mistaken. It's promo money it's not a regular bet. If you are NOT hedging you go up and place the $900 on player. If player wins, you walk away with $900"

    Whats wrong there is: if player wins then yes he would walk away with $900... in chips he can cash in. He would also still have the original $900 in promotional chips...

    So for: "A regular bet you put $900 on player and if player wins you walk away with $1800."

    So he'd still have $1800 in the end: $900 in chips he can cash in and $900 in promotional chips he can keep playing with.
     
  13. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Guaranteed $855 win

    The OP and shifter had it right the first time. You aren't calculating the payoffs correctly. Just walk it through...

    1) Put $900 promo on player, $900 real chips on banker.

    a) Banker wins, you win $855 real chips for the banker bet and lose the promo chips on player. Pocket the $855 profit (and take down your $900). Done.

    b) Player wins, you lose your $900 on banker, win $900 real chips for player, (a push), but you still own the promo chips. Repeat the original bet until banker wins.

    The point of this is to convert the promo chips to real cash without risking walking away with nothing. You have 100% chance of winning the $855.
     
  14. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    I would play whatever game you normally play. Treat this as REAL MONEY. Why would anyone play this differently than if they put $900 of their own money into play?

    Sort of like when people get free slot play and they play it DIFFERENT than regular cash.

    I don't get it.

    Money is money is money is money.
     
  15. Groog

    Groog Low-Roller

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    Maybe I'm missing something they do different in Vegas, but I have had these a bunch of times at my local casino and they never pay double on promo chips.

    Forget about the hedge for a minute and realize that every time I've done this:

    If I were to put $900 promo chips on player and player wins - I DO NOT walk away with $900 + $900 promo chips. They have always been able to be cashed. I always play roulette so it goes that I put $900 on Red and if I win, they let me keep the $900 promo as regular chips. They TAKE the promo chips so I am left with $900 real chips/cash, not $900 cash + promo chips still.

    1 time bet. What you guys are saying is that he can use his promo chips and place them on player and if player wins 5 times in a row he can win $4500 without risking a dollar of his own cash?
     
  16. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    The difference is that with the offsetting bets method, you can convert the promo chips into GUARANTEED cash. If you just bet it as part of your bankroll, you have a chance to lose it all.

    They could give you as a promotion 1) play only once chips, 2) play until you lose chips, 3) cash. I think #3 is obviously the most desirable. And with this offsetting bets maneuver you can convert Type #2 into Type #3 (minus the commission.)

    When you get freeplay on a slot machine, it is type #2. But I think you can see that you can walk away with nothing even when you play through the freeplay only once. I'd rather get the guaranteed cash and then do whatever I want with that, which might include gamble with it, of course, but you could go buy something tangible and lock in that 'win'.
     
  17. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    yes, those are 1 time use chips. those suck. the OP is talking about real promo chips that are keep until you lose.

    for 1 time use chips, your method is correct. however, for those, you're better off just betting them and trying to get as much as you can for them. there's a good chance you can win more than half your bets in which case you'll come out ahead of the hedging method.
     
  18. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    If I have $900 in cash to go to Vegas, I would gamble a certain way.

    If somebody gave me $900 in freeplay/promoplay, why would I play that any different than if it was my own cash?

    Or said another way, if there is way to turn $900 freeplay/promo into GUARANTEED cash, why not do the same thing with my own money?
     
  19. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Thats what I would do.

    The OP said they normally play at the $50 level, so going up to the $100 level for the freeplay isn't that big a stretch since its free play and not their own money.

    The $500 chip is a huge step up... but I would look at that as the thrill of one big gamble: If they bet it on an even money wager and win then they have $500 in cash and they still have the $500 chip, who knows how many times it could keep winning? If they lose then thats that... it was just freeplay so I wouldn't feel any worse if I didn't win (I would really hope I win, but if I lost I'm not going to feel like I personally lost $500).

    The trying to convert it to cash reminds of a post last year where somebody had $1200 worth of free play and they were so dead set on converting it to cash they wanted to know exactly how to bet it on video roulette to minimize their losses. In the end they converted their freeplay to cash... but what did they end up doing with it? They fed it in to the slot machine anyhow...
     
  20. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    because the OP said he wants to bet $25/hand and the chips are $100 and $500. he can't play them the same way he would play his own money. so he converts them to cash first and then he can bet them at $25/hand or whatever.
     
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