1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games 6/5 Blackjack Insurance

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by hornhiyo, Mar 18, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hornhiyo

    hornhiyo Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Spring, Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    31
    Am I correct in my thinking that at 6/5 blackjack, taking insurance (even money) on your blackjack is the correct play. The 20% gain does not overcome the 33% risk.

    This as opposed to the 50% reward when playing 3/2 blackjack.

    Listening to a podcast this morning and they were going-on about insurance never being the correct decision. I don't believe that's the case in this scenario.

    Correct me if i'm wrong.
     
  2. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    At a 6:5 table they WON'T let you have 'even money' when you have a blackjack and the dealer is showing an ace. You can still take insurance, but there are two different results:

    6:5 table (holding a blackjack, dealer shows Ace)
    $10 bet, take $5 insurance.
    Dealer has blackjack, Push the $10 bet, win $10 on the $5 insurance bet. Net win: $10.

    Dealer doesn't have blackjack, Win $12 on the $10 bet, lose the $5 insurance. Net win: $7.

    The reason the notion of 'even money' even exists is that at a real 3:2 table, both scenarios always results in a net $10 win on a $10 bet: (2nd: win $15, lose $5). So 'even money' IS taking insurance, but not at a 6:5 table; it only works at a 3:2 table.


    This last always cracks me up, because especially in Vegas, it seems EVERYONE takes even money like it's the only correct play, but nobody takes insurance because they know it is a sucker bet (odds, 9:4 against, only pays 2:1). But 'even money' IS insurance and is the same bad sucker bet (barring counting, of course), regardless if I've been dealt a blackjack or not.
     
  3. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,404
    Location:
    mn
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    I would say that 75% of players take even money, it's crazy, I've even had dealers admonish me for not taking even money saying it's a "sure win", usually I say I'll risk it.

    The other guy had it right, there is no such thing as even money, you are buying insurance. Most people know that ins is a bad bet, yet they fall over themselves to take even money...oh well.
     
  4. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    9,888
    Location:
    Missouri
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    If even money is accidentally offered to you at a 6:5 table, you should take it every time. At 6:5, dealers should be treating it like normal insurance, which you pass on.
     
  5. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    785
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I can't help but make a snide comment that this should never be an issue as one should never be at a 6/5 table ever. But that's just me.
    It's your money.
     
  6. hornhiyo

    hornhiyo Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Spring, Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    31
    Agree. It was more of a math question than likely scenario.
     
  7. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,606
    Location:
    st. louis
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    6
    I was thinking this....and promised myself I wouldn't say it...but since you did.....


    :soapbox:

    YES!!!!!!! I agree!!!!!!


    although it was an interesting math question and one I hadn't thought about.
     
  8. mickeydfly13

    mickeydfly13 Tourist

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Let's say your wager was $10,000 (or a big amount for you--whatever that is) and you had that scenario. Would you not take the even money? Take the 10K and run or risk getting nothing if the dealer had blackjack. I don't take insurance, but if I had the stones to bet that big, I think I'd take the sure win. After all--before the hand was dealt, wouldn't you be happy knowing you were going to win said hand?
     
  9. Bossplayer21

    Bossplayer21 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    440
    Location:
    Michigan
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    7
    Interesting point on a larger than normal bet, but I was once told by an older player...."if you let your bet size dictate your decisions, then son you're betting too much money"

    I'll always remember that piece of advice. If you find yourself hesitating to double or split because you have a large bet out, then you shouldn't of bet that high.

    I might be different than others, but I pretty much run on auto pilot at the table and play the best strategy I know of with the hand dealt, regardless of the money I have out.
     
  10. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    Remember, it isn't like you're going to LOSE your bet.

    However, if I had just raised my bet to $10,000, the odds are pretty good that the count was through the roof, so it would be a no-brainer to take even money in that case. If I didn't know the count, then I'd be happy to have a chance to get $15,000 and wouldn't want to voluntarily give up that extra $5000.

    If I'm a $100 bettor and suddenly bet $10,000, I have bigger problems than whether to take even money or not :Þ
     
  11. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,606
    Location:
    st. louis
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    6
    If i'm playing my normal $10-25 a hand then yes, I take even money. But if I made a big bet for me, say $100,then no, I gamble it and know the math is on my side.
     
  12. Bossplayer21

    Bossplayer21 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    440
    Location:
    Michigan
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    7
    I dont get it. So you know the math is on your side, but while betting your normal $10-$25 a hand you take the insurance?

    But on a bet 4X your normal you'd let it ride?

    Am I missing something here? The math didnt change.
     
  13. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,957
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    55
    Best advice I can give is to never play 6:5 BJ and only take insurance if the count dictates that you do. If you don't count than insurance is not advantageous to the basic strategy player. Not trying to poo-poo the post of the OP, but that's the way I would approach this scenario.

    :peace: :beer:
     
    Annual Summer Bliss in the Land of Milk and Honey!!!
  14. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,380
    Location:
    Northeast Ohio
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    52
    Why are we having this conversation :bang: get off the 6/5 tables :nono: and back on the 3/2 tables.....:beer:
     
  15. discin311

    discin311 Tourist

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    83
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    2
    arent there like no 3/2 BJ tables on the strip left? From what I remember is that there was only 6/5
     
  16. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,606
    Location:
    st. louis
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    6
    I didn't mean that. I meant I wouldn't take it. I mis-typed. I've never taken insurance or even money in my life even when I had larger than usual bets out.

    Sorry about that.
     
  17. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,137
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    8
    Not generally for $5 minimum.

    Some people will say that if nobody plays a 6:5 $5 minimum table than the casino will have to do something because they don't want to pay people to work empty tables.

    But I think what they would do is bump up the minimums to a point they are comfortable offering 3:2...which bumps BJ past my bankroll.

    So as much as 6:5 stinks - compared to 3:2...for a $5 bettor there isn't many convenient alternatives.
     
  18. ClownHo

    ClownHo High-Roller

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    902
    Location:
    God's country
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    I had the same thought when I saw the thread title, and now that I've read the thread, I can say I had no idea what the insurance policy is on a 6:5 table, and yes, I've played at a couple for a short period of time in my life. I'll give you 6:5 that I never play at one again.
     
  19. ClownHo

    ClownHo High-Roller

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    902
    Location:
    God's country
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    If you want to play and stay on the strip, then perhaps that's right. I'm not going to argue that you should play and/or stay elsewhere, but if I were still inclined to spend my time on the strip and 6:5 is all I could get at a $5 table, I'd seek alternative games. And yes, I know, the low roller gets less favorable odds on other games along the strip, too.
     
  20. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    The answer is: If they actually allowed you to take "even money" at a 6:5 table, it would be the right play. Your "even money" call would be giving up $2 to protect/assure a $10 win on a $10 bet. Effectively, your "insurance" bet would pay 5:1.

    But since they don't, and they only offer a standard 2:1 insurance bet, it is the same bad bet at a 6:5 table as it is at a 3:2 table.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.