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Table Games $25 non-marked 6:5 table

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by iowa1525, Jun 11, 2013.

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  1. iowa1525

    iowa1525 Tourist

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    Was at PH this weekend. Sat down at a $25 single deck table. It didn't say 6:5 on the felt or on the placard (which wasn't digital). About 5 hands in I get a BJ and he pays me 6:5. I ask the dealer " is this a 6:5 table?" He goes to point to the placard and it doesn't say it there and looks at the felt and its not there, he then says it should say it there but doesn't. I look at him shockingly, and have a brief calm discussion. I cashed in and walked out.

    Is 6:5 the new norm, so they don't have to list it at the table? I understand that it was single deck, but shouldn't it be listed?
     
  2. bu$hman

    bu$hman Low-Roller

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    I would have called over the Pit Boss. I would have suspected you would have been paid 3:2 (don't quote me, but I would have suspected it.) I would guess that the signage probably would have been changed. I would have then cashed out and walked away. Those are my two cents.
     
  3. SH0CK

    SH0CK Stylin' and Profilin' Quasi Tech Admin

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    I was always led to believe that they had to advertise payouts and special game rules on the table or on a sign at the table due to Gaming Commission rules.
     
  4. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    They shouldn't even write 6:5. They should be more accurate and write "a whopping 6:5".
     
  5. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    This would make me think they need to display 3:2 for blackjack...which they dont always do.

    And they dont display all the payouts in craps...
     
  6. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    It's Regulation 5.012, which you can get to here: http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=2945

    Basically, the rule is that you have to conspicuously advertise the payoff for all bets, except for craps/keno/faro (presumably because there are so many bets and potential payoffs, so they're allowed to just have a list that you can ask for) and some special rules applicable to slot machines. It's not only a problem that there was no placard that said 6:5, it's a problem that there was no sign whatsoever. I would have politely asked for a pit boss or supervisor, because although I'm quite sure that was a mistake, it's a pretty serious mistake.

    (I'm not your lawyer, this isn't legal advice, etc.)
     
  7. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah, I would threaten to call Gaming myself and definitely wouldn't have left until I was paid $37.50 (or whatever 150% of your wager was). (Edit: 44inarow searches better than I do, it is required!) And obviously, it is standard procedure to have it in writing though, so an argument with the pit boss would have likely got you get you a one-time 3 to 2 payment because they sure as hell don't want you to go to Gaming. Now FYI, yes, many single deck games are 6 to 5, especially on the Strip, and definitely at Caesars properties.
     
  8. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    I can't recall ever not seeing the payout listed at a blackjack table. Usually the felt will have the relevant information (blackjack pays 3:2, insurance pays 2:1), and if it doesn't, then it'll be on a placard or electronic display, which is usually the case for 6:5 games.
     
  9. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    On a $25 bet, you'd end up waiting around for a long time in hopes of getting paid your extra $7.50. I think OP played it right and just cashed out.

    Another way to play it would be to call over the pit boss and make a small stink. Then just ask him to write you a buffet comp and you'll call it good. It would probably work.
     
  10. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    I don't even think it'd require much of a stink. I'd be very, very surprised if a pit boss wouldn't have given you the 3:2; they're jerks sometimes, but they know the law, and I have a feeling they'd know that this was a problem. Like I said, this definitely seems like a pretty obvious mistake to me, and the dealer was just trying to cover his own ass and/or thought he was doing the right thing.
     
  11. iowa1525

    iowa1525 Tourist

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    I did make a small stink with the dealer in a polite fashion. My wife told me just to be quite so I did. At that point he should have called the pit boss over. I felt it wasn't going anywhere after about 30 seconds so it wasn't worth my time. And I can promise that it wasn't anywhere on the table, or else the dealer would have pointed it out himself.
     
  12. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Yeah, you probably handled it right. Not worth the time.
     
  13. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    I agree. There is no single deck table on the Strip in LV today which pays 3:2, but it is not your responsibility to know that. It is the legal responsibility of the casino to correctly display the game rules. The pit boss knows that, I think you would have been paid without much of a fuss, and the placard would have materialized before the next hand was dealt. For $7.50 it may not have been worth the effort, but I think you would have gotten paid if you pushed the issue.
     
  14. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I think you're right. It was obviously their error. $7.50 isn't material money but why give up what's yours? Never leave a dime on the table. Your time in a casino is measured in losses anyway, so any profit no matter how small is worth taking. Especially when it just requires a quick nod from the pit boss.
     
  15. Rush

    Rush High-Roller

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    Stop playing on the Strip, and the problem is solved.

    It continues to amaze me how many people will play these crappy games, just so they can have the "glitz" of The Strip.

    Drive a mile, and start having a great time gambling again!
     
  16. KingBBInLV

    KingBBInLV High-Roller

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    I would have put up a stink about it. If they alter the payouts it has to show that somewhere on the table.

    If they didn't pay you the difference (the pit boss would have given you the 3/2 payout for sure) then you call the NV Gaming Commission.

    Tell your wife to get back in the kitchen and make you a sandwich and not to tell you to be quiet next time cause you were right to speak up on this one.

    (^^^^Obviously just a tasteless joke)
     
  17. VegasBJ

    VegasBJ VIP Whale

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    I thought it was sammich on 2+2?
     
  18. FoolsGold

    FoolsGold Tourist

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    I'd have called the Floor over and tried to get 3:2 even though sometimes I'm too drunk to even see the signs that are there.

    One casino ALWAYS has 6:5 signs when its below 25 and ALWAYS has 3:2 No MidShoe Entry when its not 6:5. No confusion. They post the rules. They post them prominently. And they obey them. What more can you ask for.

    I admire the casinos that are straightforward with the players.
     
  19. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I had a huge argument with the Monte Carlo floor last trip over ~$5 that lasted an ~hour. I didn't give a crap about the money, I wanted the problem to be "fixed" (a button that said "Bet One" behaved exactly like the "Max Bet" button - on a 25-play nickel VP machine w/STP near the poker room). The slot tech and the manager were idiots, but since it was 4am and I was a drunk tourist, I failed to come up with the proper method/words to clearly convince them. I threatened to go to Gaming a number of times during that hour, but the slot manager mainly shrugged that off. And they just assumed I was wrong because I was drunk, obv. At about the hour mark, the manager gave me $5 (roughly my losses over the glitch) to help end the argument. Not exactly what I wanted, but after the length of time, I knew I should just take it. They didn't have to fill out any paperwork in front of me for that $5 either. So I am sure the pit boss would be throwing an extra $7.50 for the BJ immediately if the argument was crystal clear, but for them it's obviously not worth fighting if the casino is clearly wrong. As for my case, they may have filled out paperwork later like "Crazy, drunk patron insisted machine was misprogrammed and wanted $5 bet back." lol

    Later in my trip, I also found the same unit at Quad, their "Bet One" button did NOT exist. I'm shocked a CET property outsmarted MGM and at "The Quad" of all places...lol I unfortunately didn't get back to Monte Carlo to fight them over principle (and a clear argument to prove the misprogramming, which I figured out about an hour later, but didn't want to argue with the same people again...doh). And also if I would have actually contacted Gaming would have cut further into my already busy trip after I got my money back (~fair resolution for me). But if it exists on my next trip and bother to go to back to that place (visit/testing only, no real gaming allowed for those idiots), I will waste some my Vegas time and efficiently fight about this if no one else has yet ($7.50 for a round of VP is rough for some people!).
     
  20. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Honestly, the way I read the rules (again, not your lawyer, not legal advice) they have to always show the payouts; it's not a question of whether anything is being "altered". Of course, I can't say for sure whether that's always the case on all games, considering that 75% of my play is craps, which is exempt, and the remainder of my play is blackjack, which I'll only play if I see "Blackjack Pays 3 to 2" on the felt and only recall not seeing it on tables with a 6:5 placard, but the language of the regulation seems pretty straightforward to me.
     
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