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Video Poker 1000 hands JoB 95% acc. Am I ready?

Discussion in 'Video Poker' started by Dpin300, Jan 28, 2013.

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  1. Dpin300

    Dpin300 Low-Roller

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    Did 1000 hands on the JoB trainer app (android link)

    [​IMG]

    Hit a couple of 4oak's:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Made some errors:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Looking back at these error's I see I forget to hold the 3 to a straight flush.

    I need to find out when to hold 2 to a royal. I thought I made some mistakes I didn't understand. Example: A and 10 suited with another High card offsuite you don't hold the A and 10. But A and High card. With A Q suited with another High card you do hold the A and the Q right? and not the other High card?
    Note to myself: check the wizard strategy thing

    Why I made other mistakes: Drunk or hungover, talking to wife, watching tv, or just plain not paying attention.

    Except for the fact I'll be in Vegas with my lovely wife getting drunk, chatting and looking at other people whilst playing VP do you think I'm up for it?

    I think I started out with $1000 and made it up to $1315 after 1000 hands
     
  2. thedukeofdublin

    thedukeofdublin Low-Roller

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    Hey thanks for that link mate:peace:

    I just did 200 hands and am on 92% but I'm guessing if I did 1000 hands I'd increase that slightly so I'm roughly the same level of play but i do have a few questions.

    I'm sometimes confused about certain cards I hold and get told error in play...........

    for example - Js 7d 10s 4c 9c...............I held the Js and got told error???

    I'm sure the trainer is correct but can't see how so any thoughts would be very helpful. It's presumably that I should have held 4 to get the straight (not open ended) but the only reason I didn't was that i have used that tactic before (holding 4 for a straight - not open ended either) and also got an error...........

    Another one I need advice on please

    Ah Ks 10h 9d Jh - now when I get a series of face cards I sometimes get confused as to what's the best play. My mind said I had a few plays but I got an error - Can someone tell me what the best play actually was? I held the 4 to a straight (not open ended)

    My final one really gets me

    Ad 7h 10h 9h 2s - I held the A and got error - I assume I should have held 7h 10h 9h for the straight flush????

    If so

    on my next hand

    Ks 8c 7c 9s 4c - which I held 8c 7c 4c to go for the straight flush it came as an error which has me thinking I'm really not ready yet.

    Please dont take the above as a thread hijack - i just thought it was as good a place to ask as any I've seen on the forum.

    So essentially my question is also "Is Dpin300 ready to take on Vegas?" :Þ
     
  3. Dpin300

    Dpin300 Low-Roller

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    No worries Duke, I don't see it as a hijack. I'll tell you what I would have done and let the pro's say what's right or wrong :)

    for example - Js 7d 10s 4c 9c...............I held the Js and got told error??? I think you should also have held the 10s for the royal chase. only hold 4 to a straight if connected.

    Ah Ks 10h 9d Jh hold the 3 to the royal

    Ad 7h 10h 9h 2s tricky, I (now) would hold the 7 9 and 10 of hearts. I made a lot of errors because I didn't hold 3 to a SF before.

    Ks 8c 7c 9s 4c Good question, I also would have made the same mistake holding the 4c 7c 8c.
     
  4. abrown83

    abrown83 Tourist

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    Three to a straight flush, two gaps, no high card.

    It is one of the lowest holds.

    It is better to hold the K in this situation.

    If you had one gap or a high card with two gaps (or better obviously), you would hold the straight flush draw.
     
  5. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    To answer the question for OP, yes, you're ready to play recreationally. If you've got 95% accuracy playing JoB and you're playing 9-6, your return is around 94.5%. You're giving up a lot of house edge there, but you're doing better than a slot machine.

    The real question, of course, isn't what you did on this 1000 hands but what you'll do on the next 1000. If you do another 1000 and you get better, then keep at it. If you stay the same, maybe you want to find another game.

    For the rest asking questions about questionable hands, if you want to work stuff like that out, get a higher end trainer that tells you the correct play. Initially you'll just memorize situations, but if you jam out 10,000 practice hands you'll start to understand the rules (ie. A-10 suited is not nearly as good as A-Q suited)
     
  6. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    Without knowing which mistakes he made and “how badly” he played those hands, it’s impossible to know the exact amount of house advantage he’s adding to the game. But I’d wager that it is significantly less than the figure you’re using.
     
  7. Buddha

    Buddha VIP Whale

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    I would agree with "thecarve". Just because the "error rate" is 5% of the hands, that does not necessarily translate into a 5% drop in the house advantage. Some errors can be very minor, costing the player less than .1%, while other mistakes can be major ones costing the player significantly more. Equating an error playing rate to the loss of expected returns is comparing apples to oranges.
     
  8. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Okay, you and The Carve are right if it's minor mistakes on 5% of the hands. But if you're using Dancer's program, the efficiency tells you the percentage of accuracy you're playing in relation to 100% EV, so that's what I was using for the math.

    Perhaps this program does it differently. If so, and looking at it again, the mistakes listed are kind of minor, maybe you're playing at higher EV.

    But it doesn't take many 'bad' mistakes to really screw your EV. If you toss a pair of sixes to keep QJ just once because you're not paying attention, that's a lot of value even spread over 1000 hands.
     
  9. kiwiboy1

    kiwiboy1 Low-Roller

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    When I started playing VP with real money I used to play 1000 hands without ANY errors. Zero. If It couldn't do that I would not play the game. Obviously the cost of your errors are the most important thing. My standards are probably much higher than most though....
     
  10. thedukeofdublin

    thedukeofdublin Low-Roller

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    Thanks pal.

    A few good points you make there.

    Thanks

    Well this is exactly what I'm after tbh......I have never played VP in vegas as my ex never wanted to spend the time playing it so it was more hassle than it was worth. Now that she is long gone its timeto perfect the errors before i insert the bills. Just over 6 weeks to do it so shouldnt be a problem.

    Off topic but always wondered - Do most VP bars serve drink foc if playing or just some? How do you know? thanks.
     
  11. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    What's drink foc?

    If you mean free, then almost all bars in vegas serve free drinks when you're playing VP at them. Some want you to be playing max coin, and some will only comp certain drinks...but it's rare enough that if there's an exception, they'll likely tell you when you sit down. Because comped is the standard.
     
  12. thedukeofdublin

    thedukeofdublin Low-Roller

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    Thanks Mike.

    Yeah that's exactly what I meant.

    Is max coin set at the particular bar?

    what i mean is does the vp machine have just one denomination where you can play one credit or max? $1 denomination plays $5 per hand? or can you play max on lets say $0.25 playing $1.25 per hand?

    I just cant remember tbh.

    & when i say FOC I obviously mean minus my tips.

    Cheers Mike:thumbsup:
     
  13. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Most all VP bars in vegas will serve you free drinks at $1.25 a hand. Some won't even require you to play that much. And some will say they require $1.25 a hand, but if you tip well they'll forget to check.

    The one exception I've ever seen is a bar in the Monte Carlo where they told me that they would only comp beer and wine -- but the guy was very clear when we sat down. So I charged them to my room and comped them that way, and will never go back to that bar for their crappy 8-5 VP.
     
  14. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    95% accurate play is pretty good for your experience level. if you are playing well enough to hit 95% you are pretty likely only missing the hands that don't make much difference anyway.

    when I grade out at 95% I'm costing myself a max of 1% of EV, but using I am sure I'm not making any major mistakes.

    I use all the standard training software, along with the bob dancer strategy cards and reference wizard of odds for any questions.

    I've sort of come to the conclusion that it is important to rank what you want to get from your video poker play before deciding the what, when, how of playing.

    For any serious play, trying to make a run at something, its worth going off-strip to seek out the best paytables. Most of my play, I'm just looking to have a few drinks and have a good time.

    I'll at least make the minimal effort of seeking out the best paytable in an area, you can usually find something that pays a coin better than the other machines (9/5 vs. 8/5 for example). I also try to play with a slight hit and run strategy. Obviously this is a fallacious strategy except that by minimizing hands you are minimizing loss.

    Another thing to keep in mind is the percentage of EV the royal accounts for. and quads. It is easy to run into very different results from expectation over the short run.
     
  15. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    actually 95% is one mistake every 20 hands, if you do that and you are cutting off 1% EV that may not sound like much, untill you realize that you are multiplying the house edge by THREE TO FOUR TIMES, you would be better off playing baccarat or craps. if you want to take video poker seriously you need to be at least 99% accurate, preferably 99.5%-99.8% anything less and you will be pissing away money
     
  16. Dpin300

    Dpin300 Low-Roller

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    Thanks to all the replies so far. I'm going to think about all the answers. Hope to have time toreplytonight,it's busy at work :grrr:
     
  17. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    I find it ironic that such a stickler for accurate play would give such an erroneous analysis. :evillaugh:poke::evillaugh

    Your analysis treats all errors equally, which is incorrect. It also HUGELY overstates the impact of such errors on EV.

    The most common error I found when playing at 95% accuracy was as follows:

    2 unsuited high cards king highest (0.4862)
    Suited TQ (0.4825)

    My choosing to take the suited TQ rather than an unsuited JK would cost me 0.0037, or 37 ten thousandths or 1.85 cents per $5 hand at max coin on $1 video poker. The cost of playing each hand perfectly is 2.3 cents.

    For a player reaching 95% accuracy, they would get this hand wrong 5 out of 100 times. So it would cost them 9.25 cents per 100 hands. The normal house advantage for 100 hands of full pay JOB would be $2.30.

    So you are NOT multiplying the house edge 3 or 4 times (300%-400%), you are increasing it a miniscule 4%.

    For a 95% accurate player, playing full pay $1 JOB at full coin of $5 per hand for 500 hands per hour, the cost of the most common error is costing them 46 cents per hour.
     
  18. Dpin300

    Dpin300 Low-Roller

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    Once again thanks to all!

    Some thoughts I had today:

    1) I think I can do better in training mode. I know what mistakes I made so I can work on those. I'll try to squeeze in an other 1000 hands as soon as possible to see if I'm right.

    2) Not expecting to get rich playing VP. I just want to play as long as possible with minimum loss. And lot's of free drinks of course. Recreational play like mike_m235 said :thumbsup:

    3) can't remember the rest

    Was doing a bit of reading on the wizard of odds video poker pages and came across the poker quiz. http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/quiz/
    Did it and only made 1 mistake (without help from strategy cards). But it says that that one is an exception to the rules. I'd rather not play the optimal strategy and chase the royal than play perfect and get a flush...
     
  19. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    I think even people who know better tend to chase the royal with A J 10 and another flush card. I wouldn't even penalize yourself for that. Especially if you were playing multi-play.
     
  20. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    It's a terribly minor mistake, so it definitely merits ignoring for any non-expert. And if Dpin doesn't plan on leaving the strip (with a few exceptions), it's a much bigger mistake to not go for the royal since he'll probably be playing a JoB game where he'll only get paid 5 for 1 for a flush instead of 6 for 1. Going for the Royal becomes the much superior play then.

    And Dpin, if youre using the Wizard of Odds for training, the stats tab has "Accuracy (in value)". You want to get this as high as possible, 99.5% or higher would be best.
     
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