Table Games Why hasn't casino mgmt changed craps rules/payouts

I'm looking for thoughts on why the casinos haven't changed the payouts at the craps tables? They've made BJ and VP less attractive for players. I assume the slots take more than they used to.

It seems to me that other than 2 & 12 on the field bet they really haven't changed the game. I don't play roulette, may be the same can be said for that game other than single zero and double zero wheels.

I'm surprised they haven't messed with the craps payouts. The house edge can be kept pretty low by focusing on certain bets.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

The casinos must be making enough money from craps to not warrant any changes. While there are people who know how to minimize the house advantage, the majority of players just don't fully understand the game and get pulled into sucker bets.

 

They have changed the payout on the center bets over the years.
If they change the odds % and place bet payouts, It would be a good reason for me to stop gambling.

 

The casinos probably would have made changes to craps over the years... but there really isn't much they can change.

Like how you mentioned video poker: changing from 9/6 JoB to 8/5 JoB.

In that case such a change only increases the house edge by 2%, not that big a change overall

But if they change the JoB VP paytable where two pair only pays 1, instead of paying 2, then the house edge would increase by almost 13%... or if they changed three of a kind from paying 3 to paying only 2 that would increase the house edge by 7.4%

When the casino does make changes to a game the end result they want is to only increase the house edge by maybe 1-2%

Now the other key here is: when they make a change it has to be to something that will come up from regularly, but not all the time. Such is the case with blackjack or with VP why they changed the full house and flush numbers and not what the royal flush pays out...

In the case of blackjack you are expected only to hit about 3-4 blackjacks an hour, in the case of video poker you can expect to make a full house or flush about once each for every 100 hands dealt.

So going back to craps...

They can't change any of the fundamental bets like PASS or DON'T PASS or buy/place because doing so would cause a massive increase in the house edge. Like if your pass line bet only paid $4 for every $5 wagered that would increase the house edge by 21%

Then the bets that people do make from time to time, like the hard ways, already have a pretty high house edge so they can't really change them.

So all that really leaves are the proposition bets which also already have a high house edge but there is still some room to increase the edge by a small amount... but it goes back to the problem where changes have to be made to regularly occurring outcomes (IE: the full house or flush in video poker or the blackjack in blackjack) and these are just not wagered enough where increasing the house edge 1-3% on these specific bets is going to have a long term trackable increase in the table's hold, plus they have the issue where smart players can just avoid these bets (you can't avoid blackjacks or flushes or full houses by comparison unless you make stupid plays like being dealt a full house and never holding the two of a kind, as an example).

 

I'd imagine it has something to do with the fact that so many craps players (even ones who know the HA) love the sucker bets.

 

I've seen fluctuation on the hardways payoff, especially overseas.

 

Anytime you see on layout that some prop bet payouts are "X FOR 1" instead of "X TO 1", that is where they have made a change.

Example:
5 FOR 1 means you get $5 on a $1 bet.
5 TO 1 means you get $6 on a $1 bet ($5 + your original $1 bet)

 

It will eventually... In my area, 2 and 12 are paid double instead of triple. Hard way payouts in some casinos are different too. BJ was the first one got ripped because the house edge was so low.

 

I believe BJ was changed to counter card counters and VP odds lowered due to advantage players. No way to win at craps like the other two games so no need to lower odds to prevent it.

 

Shhhhh......don't give them any ideas....

 

Fire bet anyone?

 

At one time the 12 on the field paid different between downtown and the strip. Downtown 3:1, Strip 2:1, anyone know if that is still true?

 

Last time I played at TI on a 10minthe field payed triple . That was a year ago

 

I'll let you know what I find downtown this weekend.

 

I suspect the casinos make a lot of money on their craps tables so as the saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

The table minimums have gone up and some of the odds have lowered so I guess..... all I know is sometimes I win, sometimes I lose and both seem to happen in the blink of an eye!:confused2:

 

but they haven't really changed these in most cases, they're just wording it differently so you think you get more. ties at Bacc used to read 8 to 1 everywhere and now lots of places display them as 9 for 1. same difference, just makes you think you're getting more if you don't know any better.

 

For many of the prop bets on the craps table - particularily at CET casinos - they have changed the payouts, not just the language.

 

Absolutely the payback changed from 30 to 1 to 30 for one.

Used to be you'd get your original bet back plus your winnings.

Now, they pay you 30 for one, they keep the one. It changes the already bad house percentage (advantage) but look at it this way. Those players are going to make those bets anyway and that's where the casino makes it's money.

If everyone on a Craps Table only played the pass/don't pass line with odds the casino wouldn't make nearly enough profit to justify paying a Craps crew consisting of a stick man, two dealers and a box man not to mention the pit boss that has to oversee half a dozen games or more.

You bet they make money on a crowded Craps game, hand over fist. If they could have figured another way to slant the odds in their favor they would have done it by now.

They had better leave the Sacred Cow alone!

 

There are probably more variations than you realize

Crapsless craps
Fire Bet
All/small/tall
x to 1 vs x for 1
Double 2/12 on the field; triple 2/12 on field
Pay the vig on the buy bet before the win vs after win
2x/3x/4x odds, vs 5x vs 10x vs 100x
Hop bets vs no hops bets

Of course, the basic payouts are established for good reason....including ease of payout. They are not likely to change.

 

Penn National's Hollywood casino in Pa.where I live changed the commission on buying the 4 and 10 to $1 for a $20 buy instead of $1 for 25.
It did not last long and they are back to $1.00 for every $25 purchase.