Table Games Q. for Crapshooters: Would you still play w/ 6:5 payouts?

I have a question for my fellow crapshooters:

Would we put up with what the blackjack players are having to contend with these days - 6:5 payouts on what were traditionaly 3:2 propositions?

I'm not a blackjack player (Too much thinkin'!), but I've noticed the proliferation of 6:5 blackjack games, which are to the consternation of nearly all experienced players - and they seem to be increasing everywhere.

My question to you is: "Would you put up with a 6:5 payout on the 3:2 propositions on the crap table? And what could we do to combat it should it ever get started in craps?"

For us it would be like getting 6:5 odds behind the 5 & 9. Or getting 7:6 payouts on placing the 5 & 9. Would you put up with that?

And at the same time they would probably offer even money behind the 6 & 8 and pay something ridiculous like 13:12 for place bets on the 6 & 8 as well.

Would this be the end of craps as we know it, or would we just keep playing as the casinos killed our game?

It doesn't seem to have occured to them....yet! But you never know!

Pitboss: "Get real!! That table is much to big for me to do that with!"

Finally, I just want to express my solidarity with all of our beleaguered blackjack playing brothers and sisters! And to say to them, "There's still plenty of room behind the 5 & 9.....for now!"

 

Hard to say.

Though I like to win money - I know the odds are against me, and I'm not sure how far those odds would have to move for me to stop playing.

I'll play 6:5 BJ on the strip because playing at $5 (base bet) is more important to me than getting paid 3:2.

In craps, it's (or looks like) a more complicated game to beginners. We learned at Slots of Fun when the minimum was like $2.

If you chase away shooters because of bad odds...will others fill in the gap? I'm not convinced. I think that most people understand (roughly and enough to step up to a table) BJ. But craps? Many people are intimidated of all the bets, the excitement and the seemingly torrid pace. Combine that with the fact that something is always happening on the table...it's harder for players to ask for help from the pit.

So where do craps players come from?

Well, I'll have to go against my experience - as no one taught me the dice game - but guess that most craps players come from friends or family members who get them into the game. Take away those players due to bad odd...and maybe craps players are a dying breed?

 

Would I play craps with modified odds? Hell no. I also don't think it would ever happen because craps payouts are difficult enough as it is. If you change the 3:2 payouts to 6:5, you'd also have to change everything else. As a former craps dealer and boxman, I would imagine retraining craps personnel on new payouts would be an absolute nightmare.

Switching blackjack to 6 to 5 was a relatively easy because it was only one different payout.

In order for casinos to help their bottom line, what I do think you might see, is some sort of modified craps table not involving so many dealers. Perhaps something where the player can still through the dice but all of the payouts are handled electronically.

 

Unless it was done by many casinos... the SMARTER craps players would play at the houses with the 3:2 odds. I say smarter because people play the BiG 6 and BIG 8 who don't know the difference of the better payouts by placing the number(s).
If that were the case and ALL houses did that, I would have to consider BUYING the numbers. Don't know what the exact odds would be but I sure some math wiz ( Wizards of odds??) can provide that info. Otherwise for myself...would just bet the line and odds heavier than I normally would.

 

I am guessing they won't need to. The 'carny' craps bets are done by a very large portion of people and I am sure makes their hold numbers. Blackjack has a pretty low hold and very few sidebets. Also at any time players have a lot more out on the table at craps vs blackjack.

That being said, hell no, I won't do that. I think that they do the same 'hold' by increasing the table minimum to price some people out of full odds.

 

I wouldn't put up with it. I'd go to other joints or not play :eek2
Odds payouts are bad enough to not do that, except for the free odds.

Hey carny / scarne ... they rhyme ... go figure

It is so fast paced at times that it would be hard to see how they can eliminate a dealer.

Surely, better ways to enhance the bottom line will evolve in craps.
e.g.: hop bet, fire bet layout added to the felt etc. (don't much like them, but they enhance the bottom line for the house)
I've always wanted to see the BIG 6/8 taken out (wasted space) and some other prop bet put there like a 'No Field' bet.
Or sell advertising space...

 

This was already done at Bills. You sat around a regular table with a computer monitor in front of you to make your bets. You still got to trow the dice, but payouts were done automatically - until you wanted to color up.

This type kind of took the fun out of craps. It was a more subdued atmosphere - probably because people weren't throwing and calling out bets and there was no action of payouts.

 

Well, thanks for that observation. I hadn't quite thought of that wrinkle. You're probably right about that.

I know that, in the future, I'm going to be much more charitably inclined to all of the horn bettors, world bettors, and Big Red bettors. They're keeping the tables open for the pass line players, dark side bettors and the odds takers and layers!

And jrinct1:

You've reminded me of the "Eastern" or "New York" craps layout that the Bahamas casinos used to have years ago. I remember taking junkets out of Florida down to Freeport, Bahamas for a number of years where they used to deal that game. There were no come bets and you had to buy all of the numbers for a 5% commission. That game was definitely heavy for the house like a ton of bricks! The dealers all had stacks of quarters with which to make change for all of the $5.00 buy bets and the layout would be covered with paper that was scattered all over from the rolls the dealers would break open to make change!

Here's a pretty good description of that game that I ran across. For those of us who used to participate in that particular strain of craps, it's a real "blast from the past!":

http://ezinearticles.com/?New-York-Or-Eastern-Layout-Craps---How-The-Last-Legal-Games-Were-Operated&id=799895

Let's hope we never see it's kind again! And thanks for the memories!

 

6:5

I would agree with other posters that a casino would not tweak the craps payouts, as they exist today....they don't need to.....if a casino felt like it did need to up its profits (or reduce the winning of the player), I would guess that the casino would just reduce the maximum free odds bet a player could make....such as a max of 2X your pass line bet, instead of the usual 3,4,5X....IIRC, there is only one casino (DT) that limits the Pass line odds to 2X.....how that casino gets any craps play is amazing, considering there are other DT casinos that offer as much as 10X odds....

 

I was at some casino downtown last year that had every number as a point. Meaning if you rolled a yo on the come out that established the 11 as a point. What the hell was that?

 

Sounds like Crapless Craps: http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/5/#toc-CraplessCraps

 

That's "crapless craps". It's been at the Stratosphere for years. Where did you see it downtown?

 

Las Vegas Club has Crapless Craps

 

I'm guessing that's where we were. It was not one of the major casinos down there.

 

Don't play Crapless Craps, House advantage is as bad as roulette.

 

The Plaza had a crapless craps table the last time I walked through.

 

I don't play 6:5 blackjack, and I would not play that shit, either.

 

I play craps almost exclusively when I play pit games. And absolutely not. NO WAY IN HELL. I would be so insulted, I would probably never go back into whatever place I found that corn-holing. But, hey, OP. By all means, give the greedy bastards ideas!

 

Any deviation from traditional Craps doesn't seem to do too well since the current game is pretty even.

If they did change the odds, wouldn't everyone simply switch to the don't side????

 

It's called 'Crapless Craps'. The edge on the passline is huge, thus a suckers game, IMO. And there is no darkside to bet on, so that's lame as well.