Table Games New blackjack player observations

My one piece of advice is based on lots of time spent at blackjack tables, back in my $5 and $10 days, watching new players try to split 5s or 10s, double on hands higher than 11, and things of that nature. And that advice is, if you signal to do something, and the dealer asks you whether you're sure, and then calls out to the pit what you're doing... it's probably not the right call.

And for the record, I mean not the right call for you. I don't buy into the whole "affecting the table" thing, because I've had the guy at third base take the 7 that would have given the dealer 21 just as many times as that guy's taken the dealer's bust card. Long term, your play is only going to affect yourself and nobody else, and I can't stand being at a table with people who get mad about other players (although, that being said, plenty do that nonetheless, so avoid their tables, because they're no fun to be around!).

 

Gambling is entertainment. If you're truly an advantage player working for a living, you likely dont care how the dealer behaves and need all the edge you can get.

If you're not, you're gonna lose more than you win, but the dealer can greatly impact whether you have fun in the meantime.

 

Yes. One line I like to use is "If I could control whether the dealer gets a bust card by taking one too many or one too few cards, we'd all be rich."

 

If you think BJ rules are bad lately just wait until casinos have to pay their dealers the going rate in the absence of tips. Thus is a very simple econ problem, pay goes up, rules either have to get worse or table limits have to be increased. There's no such thing as a free ride in economics.

As far as the casinos making "millions" you are really missing the context.

1) MGM and CET have been doing miserably over the past 5 years. Go check their financial statements for yourself. They are publicly available.

2) Even if they are doing well you have to consider the pay raise you have in your mind in the context of the millions of dealer-hours they pay for per year. Even a single dollar an hour raise is millions to an MGM or CET.

3) Even the millions they might make in a year have to be put in the context of their investments. Making a million bucks sounds great but if your investment in your casino is a billion bucks (as most new strip properties are ATLEAST that) then a million dollar profit is a miserable result.

You can't just throw just throw out the fact that "they make millions" without the proper context.

 

Double ditto. You can always tell which people at the table were failed by the public education system based on their disposition towards other player's mistakes.

 

Very astute post.

 

Though not taking issue with this at all, it should be noted that much of MGMs and Caesers' financial problems stems from debt load, accumulated before the 2008 bust (as opposed to losing money on the gambling, food and hotels).

But everything else you said is correct and would stand and be reasonably accurate when talking about any industry required to raise salaries of workers.

 

You're correct to a degree but not completely. There's no free ride but in the real world the relationship between buyers and sellers isn't as efficient as econ 101 dictates. There's price stickiness and ample supply of low skilled labor.

If dealer tips disappeared tomorrow Wynn is not going to start paying them 80-100k like they're making there right now. Dealers aren't skilled enough to have that type of market power. Plenty of dealers will replace those that choose to leave due to lower wages, its not a profession with any significant barriers to entry.

Second, the tips going to dealers right now won't vanish, they'll increase the house take. People tip dealers with chips, not with separate funds they dedicate to dealer tips. Those chips will just be played so there's a % of that the house will retain.

That's already happening. Casinos are finding ways to keep more of the chips in play and it lowers dealer tips through things such as side bets and low toke generating games which have multiple bets. How much do you think they care about the dealers complaining? When Wynn tried to make dealers share their tips with supervisors and effectively take huge pay cuts how much do you think they actually worried about dealers leaving? They don't. Because its a job that's easy to fill.

I agree with you that casinos would have to increase dealer salaries to some degree. But not in line with their current pay. Low skilled labor in all industries are price takers, not price makers.

 

Latest observation: Do not make your stand or hit hand signs to close to your chips.

Of course you're not allowed to touch your chips once the dealer starts dealing the cards. I try to make clear stand or hit signs, but I was recently politely told not to make a stand sign over my bet because my hand was blocking the eye-in-the-sky's view. Apparently they were concerned I was adding chips to my bet.

 

That's news to me. I'm one of those people who's always shuffling a short stack of 6 to 8 chips, even after the cards come out. I've never once been told not to touch my chips.

 

He is referring to the chips inside the betting circle. I doubt you are shuffling those? But that would be kinda cool.

 

Perhaps he (or the dealer) was speaking of the bet chips.
Point is that one should not place their hand over the bet chips after cards are being/have been dealt.

Wave your "stand" call behind your bet, not over it.

PS - never tap your cards for a hit either!

 

Yes, that's what I should have said.

 

What do you think?

First post here so be easy. Just out of curiousity how would you handle the following or what do you think of the person at the table:

I approached a low limit $25 BJ table with two open seats available. I sat down, put down my $ and was about to get my chips when the one guy asked me to leave as he didn't want me to mess up the "mojo" at the table. I stared at the guy for a second asked him "really?", looked at the dealer who said nothing, and gathered up my money. The thing that really got me was that I had been watching the table for about 10 minutes prior and the guy was betting the minimum and was probably breaking even at best. Needless to say I found another table and when i glanced over 20 minutes later the guy was getting up, shaking his head with no chips left.

 

Could be either:

1) The guy was a card counter. Perhaps your entry point was at a time when the count indicated a player advantage. The card counter didn't want to "share" the rich cards with another player.

2) The guy was an idiot.

Based on the info you provided, I lean to #2.

 

The odd part is that the dealer didn't say anything. This is something they probably hear a lot and should be able to handle in a nice way. A lot of times if people at the table are betting bigger the PB will raise the minimum just so others don't disturb them. I was at a table recently where he raised it from 100 to 500 while me and some lady were playing and winning. Even though I wasn't betting close to 500 (the lady was betting thousands though). It was a nice gesture. But if you want to come in and play at the table limits I think its bad form for the dealer to stand idle while another player tries to claim the table as his own, especially at lower limits where seating availability could be tight.

 

I would have sat down and stated "I'll wait for the shuffle", and then ordered a drink.
As far as I'm concerned, that is the limit to any 'good gambler manners' that I owe anyone at a blackjack table.

When I approach a 3-card table, I ask the players present if they prefer that I take or not take a particular seat. I am always willing to take 3rd so as to not "take" anyone's cards they would otherwise get. 90% of the time, nobody cares - but every now and then, a player will speak up and say "well, if you don't mind, I'd rather you sit at 3rd base" (or words to that effect).

At BJ tables, if a player is 1 or 2 seats over from third, I always check to see if he wants third before I take a seat to his left.
Again, I just consider that stuff to be basic fellow-gambler courtesy.
But I would never allow another player to keep me from playing a table - unless I decide to leave on my own.

 

First you did the right thing to leave - not because you were really wrong to sit down in the first place but mostly because the guy was likely not going to be much fun to play with.

That said - I do think it is common curtesy and proper etiquette to either wait until the end of the shoe before joining - or at least ask permission from the others at the table before you sit down. Personally I nearly always either wait until the end of a show - or if someone else is already joining the table mid-shoe I might join at the same time. On the occasions when I joined a table mid-shoe I have always asked if it was OK with the other players. A couple of times they have asked me to wait to start playing until the shoe was done and I would always comply with that request.

If I am at the table personally I always say OK when someone asks to join mid-shoe. If they just sit down and don't ask it doesn't bother me that much but I do consider it mildly rude.

So - in the future I would suggest that you ask the current players if it is OK if you join mid-shoe. 90+% of the time they will welcome you. The other times they may say they would prefer for you to wait until the shuffle and then it would be polite to comply (or just go to a different table if you can't wait that long to start).

 

I can see asking to wait for the new shoe when past experience finds players sitting in for a couple of hands and bolting soon after. Or the guy who walks up to a 5 or 10 $ table asking for 20 $ in chips. But I like the response to buying in and ordering a drink. I play mostly double deck low $ so the wait is one or two hands at most.

The dealer is in a fix as if he says remain what ire does he incur if you leave anyway and the player with possession issues remains?

 

In a 2-deck game waiting for the end of the shuffle is easy and I pretty much will do that each time (often the house rules require you to wait). But expecting people to wait for the end of a 6-deck or 8-deck shoe is too much. If it's a shoe, you should expect players to come in mid-shoe and shouldn't complain. I don't ask permission as the house rules almost always allow it; it's already been sanctioned by the house. If they're dumb enough to think you can change the 'flow of the cards' by sitting down, then it's their own damn fault if they don't like it.