Table Games And yet ANOTHER (yes, another) dealer tip question (yay)

This was probably discussed before, but I can't find the thread. It's about tips but more a question as to why it's structured the way it currently is.

Why do the dealers pool the tips?

I'd like to see dealers work for their tips, like waiters and waitresses. Good service, good tips. Bad service, well, you know what happens. Wouldn't you think it would be an incentive, especially for those dealers who are lacking so to speak. They'll get what they deserve...

I love to play craps. To me, the stickman is the heart and soul of a fun table. If his calls are loud and clear, and he maintains a fun and friendly banter, his tips can be generated from the center bets. The other two dealers on either end, providing they watch over the players and are efficient and accurate can get tips from place and pass/don't pass bets made for them.

The hard working, fun social dealers get compensated well. The surly, kill-joy dealers get, well, sh*t.

Why isn't this feasible and why can't this be incorporated in the casino system?

 

Maybe it has to do with keeping track of taxing tips.

 

I used to work as kitchen staff at a restaurant.

They paid us the same amount as they paid the front waiting staff, except they got tips. The management in the end decided that it was fair for all of us to share the tips, as we work as hard to keep people happy and the restaurant happy but get no recognition for this.

Yes we had grumpy waiters and waitresses, but it wasn't fair to punish us backroom staff because some of the staff were bad eggs.

 

That's understandable, but sometimes it IS fair to punish the grumpy ones. I would rather punish one than punish all.

 

Yes, in your scenario I can understand pooling tips to compensate the backroom staff who works just as hard as the front staff. I wasn't aware of this as I always thought the backroom staff were paid a decent wage that didn't depend on tips.

 

Maybe it has something to do with the high variety of players? A person working a $5 table would never want to work there vs working a $100 table.

In a restaurant all the meals are priced the same, the wait staff is given or should be by the hostess equal customers.

 

Actually they only pool with all shifts of the day in the same area.

So the HL room dealers don't share with the main floor dealers.

But the main reason to pool is consistency and predictability. Otherwise you're really gambling that you'll be the lucky one to get to deal to the big tipper.

And then you get fights over who gets assigned to the known tipper tables and who gets stuck with MJ or the other non tipping ******s.

 

Same area like same pit, or same games? IE all lower limit bj etc....

 

The pit. The dealers that rotate together and all meet together under one pit boss.

 

I always assumed the tips were pooled to reduce the incentive for theft. Someone might risk stealing $100 and putting it in with the tips if they got to keep it; but they probably wouldn't take the risk if they had to split it 50 ways.
Part of the reason I thought this is the poker dealers do keep their own tips, and in that case there is not any house money that could be stolen.

 

That's a good point. The interesting thing about poker is that players are more pressured to tip by other players than table players. Good dealers may get slightly better tips, but not by a lot at lower limits. It's often $1 for a medium pot and $2 for a big pot for many players. And I can't recall seeing someone that NEVER tipped at a poker table.

 

This is a very good point which I never thought of. This could very well be the reason for the pooling. But I wonder if rotation (if you are a deserving dealer) between low and high-end tables would make everyone happy. Or a merit system paired with seniority that would eventually place good dealers into the higher end tables.

 

For what was said in this thread I don't know how they break it down (all pooled from the day, from the week, from the pay cycle, HL only pools with HL, or everybody pools together) but the main reasons are to get dealers to work slower shifts and the lower limit tables.

For table limits: While at one table the dealer might be collecting $1 and $5 chips every few hands from some of the players at the next table over some guy might be playing $150 a hand and having a very lucky night and in the course of one or two tips might tip more than everybody at the first table combined over an entire shift.

For slow times: No dealer is going to want to work the crack-of-dawn-super-early-in-the-morning shift when then are few players and few tips to be earned versus the shifts that cover prime time when the tables are full and the limits are higher.

I think the dealers themselves likely "patrol" this and root out troublemakers: if you had five dealers and four of them earned a lot of tips by working hard, being very friendly and helpful to the customers and hustling for their tips and then the fifth guy was a stone faced stick in the mud that rarely even spoke to customers and hardly ever earned a tip then you would think the other dealers aren't going to be too fond of sharing their hard earned tips with somebody who isn't putting their fair share in to the pool. For some people a hostile work environment won't matter, or might even go over their head, but for most people if your co workers are putting the pressure on you to shape up and start earning you'll probably start earning or look to transferring to a different position.

 

Up here in Mn there are now several casinos where they keep their own tips, it seems to help in the service area as well. Not alot of stone faces, "it's good luck, lets do it, nice, well done, etc", makes for a much more enjoyable time.

 

Yeah, but if someone got caught steeling a tip, I think getting fired would be the least of his worries. His co-workers would want to kick his butt.

And, I'm sure some of it is for like shifter said. I'd want to shoot myself if I was a boss in the HL area and a good tipper came in. Everyone would be yelling and screaming for it. And, the reverse as well. A known cheep skate wouldn't want anyone dealing to him. Plus, it helps even out the slow days I'm sure.

 

Ok, I went waaay down the rabbit hole on this one. It's all Steve Wynn's fault:

http://scholars.law.unlv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1072&context=glj

 

Very interesting read Nuggithed, and thanks for sharing this. The article is very clear that FAIRNESS is the reason for tip pools, along with protecting the employees and integrity of the casino.

With this being the precedence, I feel that mgt. of the casino should also hold accountable those dealers who fall short of providing the service, fun atmosphere, and welcoming environment that these casinos are striving to provide. If these dealers do not make an effort to improve or comply then I feel it is only FAIR (especially to fellow dealers who do try) that they be removed from their positions and trained to do something else. Or as cruel as this may be, let go entirely. (worst case scenario.)

Like in any other industry, if an employee is not performing to a certain standard required of that position, then action should be taken.

 

Also to possibly protect the integrity of the game. There is a potential advantage in 3 Card Poker.

Tipping Strategy


At many casinos if the player makes a tip for the dealer then the player has the option to call on the tip portion of the bet. For example, if the player bets $5 for himself, and $1 for the dealer, the player may raise his own wager but not the tip. The correct strategy based on the tip alone is to call any hand of king high or less. So on hands of Q/6/4 to K/Q/10 the player should raise his own bet but not the tip. However, with less than Q/6/4 there is a conflict of interest. To maximize the total expected value of the player's bet and the tip, the player should raise on hands just under Q/6/4. The greater the ratio of tip to bet the more hands under Q/6/4 the player should raise on.

A fantastic advantage play, in collusion with the dealers, would be to bet the table minimum on the bet and the table maximum on the tip. Then raise on ace high or better, otherwise call. This would result in a player advantage on the tip of 26.09%.

http://wizardofodds.com/games/three-card-poker/

 

I'm an employment lawyer. The main reason they pool tips is to avoid discrimination claims based on alleged preferential assignments.